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| Apr 8th, 2004 04:22 PM | ||||
| kellychaos | Exactly, those people and the leaders who got them into such a lather ... not the general populace. It's sort of like the way the missle program worked as a deterent for years. When people know that evil acts will be returned, more or less in kind, they are less likely to commit such acts ... especially if caught and handled in an efficient and timely manner. The more we let them get away with such acts of aggression over time, the more we are the laughing stock of the rest of the muslim world and will increasingly be maligned, attacked and thought of an weak, ineffective push-overs and it only gets worse for our troops from there. Since we're already involved, we need to get a handle on it. There's simply no turning back now. That would be like saying that the lives lost so far were for naught and I wouldn't want THAT resting in the minds of the families of those military members. | |||
| Apr 8th, 2004 11:34 AM | ||||
| Cosmo Electrolux | no joke. The ones dragging the corpses around should be treated like the animals they are...by no means punish the entire Iraqi population, or Muslim for that matter....the criminals who killed and mutilation those men...regardless of their nationality and the ones who should be punished. | |||
| Apr 7th, 2004 09:37 PM | ||||
| Supafly345 | Yes yes, leading into the joke about them needing to be taken back as slaves and pets, then eventually being able to vote. | |||
| Apr 7th, 2004 07:53 PM | ||||
| Cosmo Electrolux | they act like uncivilized animals, they should be treated as such. | |||
| Apr 7th, 2004 05:10 PM | ||||
| Brandon | Ok. | |||
| Apr 7th, 2004 05:07 PM | ||||
| davinxtk |
That's not what I'm saying, Brandon. I'm just saying that killing for vengence is killing for vengence. It's black and white as far as intent goes, wrath is wrath. I'm targeting kellychaos's posts here, nothing more. |
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| Apr 7th, 2004 05:03 PM | ||||
| kellychaos | Firstly, the issue of faith for me is irrelevant. If you to talk about a sense of social morality common to most of us in this country, then I guess I take your point. At the same time, the Muslim faith is not inherently violent or disrespectful to the dead. In fact, one of the greater sins in the Muslim world is desecrating the dead and one of the foulest areas of the body, to them, is the feet ... and they were beating our dead with their shoes. Yes, it tells us that THOSE outer-fringe fanatics hate us in the extreme but it does not speak for the Muslim religion. I have just as much of a hate-on for the Shiite leaders of those people who should know better and lead their people to such things as this for their own benefit as I do for out local Bible-misinterpreting panhandlers of the airwaves we have right here in our own country. | |||
| Apr 7th, 2004 04:56 PM | ||||
| Brandon | EDIT: Nevermind. | |||
| Apr 7th, 2004 04:47 PM | ||||
| davinxtk |
So was the crowd that burned and mutilated those four people. The only reason you'd stop at putting bullets in their heads is because the center of your faith doesn't paint them as war-mongering infidels. (Shit, the more I think about it, the more I agree with the fucking Iraqis on this issue.) |
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| Apr 7th, 2004 03:37 PM | ||||
| kellychaos | I'm all for vengeance right about now. :shrug | |||
| Apr 7th, 2004 08:37 AM | ||||
| davinxtk |
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This part of the world is of a medieval mindset with modern weapons and capabilities. There's no way to erase millenia of religious, financial, racial, and political turmoil and convince these people to live and let live. At least no way that doesn't make us easily as medieval and barbaric as the destructive minds we're trying to quell. |
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| Apr 7th, 2004 03:24 AM | ||||
| Supafly345 | To die a martyr for their religion (such as suicide bombings and death penalties) is the only guaranteed way to gain access to an afterlife for them- if that puts things into perspective. | |||
| Apr 5th, 2004 04:01 PM | ||||
| Brandon |
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And no, the religion itself is not to blame, but it's undeniable that the actions of the terrorists have religious motivations behind them. |
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| Apr 5th, 2004 03:53 PM | ||||
| kellychaos | Yes, the misinterpretation by fundamentalist religious leaders has something to do with it. Yes, our occupation of their country has something to do with it. And yes, there are some other factors that go into them wanting to kill our soldiers. Somehow, I'm not so much bothered by the fact of the killing so much as the way they those people were killed and desecrated afterward. It was medieval and fills me with an anger that starts as my f'n toes and shoves bile right up my throat. With this, logic and political discussion go out the window. Those particular people need to be rounded up and dealt with with extreme prejudice. Rant over. | |||
| Apr 5th, 2004 03:31 PM | ||||
| Bobo Adobo |
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I wouldn't totally put religion to blame though. You don't see catholic monks launching cruise missles anywhere, do you? |
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| Apr 5th, 2004 03:07 PM | ||||
| ranxer | way too often its been used a tool, both in the US and Iraq. | |||
| Apr 5th, 2004 02:07 PM | ||||
| Ant10708 |
But it only played a 30% role. 
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| Apr 5th, 2004 01:58 PM | ||||
| Brandon | You'd have to be either naive or politically correct to the point of absurdity to suggest that religion hasn't played a role in this war or the greater "War on Terror." | |||
| Apr 5th, 2004 01:52 PM | ||||
| Ant10708 | I thought a majority of the violence that occurs in Iraq was by people who just crossed the border into Iraq. Is this incorrect? | |||
| Apr 5th, 2004 01:14 PM | ||||
| ranxer |
i don't think mercs were rebuilding anything, they may have been securing areas that were scheduled for reconstruction but i havnt' heard what their mission was in falluja. either way mercs 'securing' a 'safe zone' for whatever purpose are armed and enforce 'peace' through the threat of violence.. I've heard iraqis saying 'we fought saddam now we are fighting the western occupier', i almost never read or hear of average iraqis talking about religious war, its war against occupation, theft and armed 'pacification' that creates a vicious cycle of violence much of it revenge for collateral damage. I just don't see much evidence of this religious war you are talking about, and yes 30% is my own estimation from the various news sources i frequent. |
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| Apr 4th, 2004 03:19 PM | ||||
| Supafly345 |
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But what you may not have realized, is that no religious leaders or government mind-wipers decided on these beliefs, they were established centuries ago. Again, they were raised this way, there is no puppet master pulling the strings. To think this is about resources again is a generic and, pardon me, narrow vantage on what we are looking at. This was an attack on normal workers, and a desecration of their beings along with it. The automatic mechanical response to this is "This goes back to when we attacked just for Oil and ruined all of their lives." and that is simply not true. They have never wanted anything to do with us. It has always been this way, and will always be this way. And you have to get real for a second here. You think that the slumrats and field workers are stewing day and night over a resource they never really had power over in the first place? (Not that I am saying that stripping them of it is fine and dandy) You would actually think that they would murder, burn, abuse, and hang unarmed people who are working to help reconstruct the very city they live in over something they know nothing about? It is just simple common sense mixed in with a little knowledge of their land's background. But again, I suspect most ignore that and will continue to make recurring arguments to turn everything that happens in that region as another leg to support their original opposition to all activity there. Even though I also oppose most foreign involvement where it does not belong, I realize that the only involvement that lead to this disaster was those people's mere presence. |
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| Apr 4th, 2004 01:30 PM | ||||
| El Blanco |
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Now, we are occupying and sending out patrols and such. It would be a pain in the ass to send out an entire crew with each and every squad. And its not like they know when or where the fighting will be. |
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| Apr 4th, 2004 12:33 PM | ||||
| ranxer |
defense budget and mercs: my understanding is that corporate interests get taxpayer dollars to help defend those interests via mercs. we have over 140,000 troops over there and no-one can say reliably how many thousands more in mercs guarding everything from oil wells to our soldiers bases. supafly: Quote:
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| Apr 4th, 2004 11:38 AM | ||||
| Supafly345 |
They do genuinely hate us. But it is not for political reasons, or just bitter vengeance; it is religious. They are led to hate those who practice a religion other than their own - this along with the fact that they believe that most all Americans are Christian, leads them to unprejudiced hate that cannot be avoided. In their religion, they believe a man can die even after he has been already killed in the common understanding of the word. So when they beat and mutilated the corpses of these dead people, they were essentially, in their minds, killing them over and over. Hatred enough to want to kill a person they don't even know, again and again. We aren't going to get them to love us, because they are compelled to only hate. Sure, we need to fix what we broke there, but I say that the best thing to do is cut our losses and split. |
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| Apr 4th, 2004 10:38 AM | ||||
| The One and Only... |
The real benefit to the dominant political machinization is that we can make do with fewer military troops. This not only makes it appear as though less manpower is needed than is really required, but also keeps public outcry down because fewer young soldiers are being killed. Expect to see more private enterprises cropping up in the war against terror. I'm certain that we'll see plenty of specialized forces created to root out members of such organizations. |
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