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Sep 1st, 2005 04:55 PM

xbxDaniel

Damn guys...

The shit going on down south is pretty serious right now. Just try and donate if you can, and don't bash others for not jumping out of their chair at their computer to run down there and help them all.

About the looters though, I don't aprove of the actions and I can see why people are pissed about it. I do agree that looters should be penalized somehow. I think murder is a pretty big penalty though, and I don't think they should be shot as soon as they are caught. I don't know all the facts and I won't pretend that I do, I just hope this all settles down within a month. I just hope the news doesn't keep whoring the story though, the world's pretty depressing as it is.

Please donate if you can or have the means, or just chill out at home and hope for the best. Just don't be an ass to the true victims, the looters I don't really care if you piss on them.

Sep 1st, 2005 04:53 PM

ziggytrix

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Rock

I'm not saying he should have killed her, but I understand

i can feel sorry for someone and think they're doing the wrong thing at the same time. why is this so hard for you to understand?[/quote]

Sep 1st, 2005 04:50 PM

AChimp

Pwned.

Sep 1st, 2005 04:23 PM

Preechr

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziggytrix

Yeah it's sad that when the shit hits the fan we act like the animals we are, but I'd bet you wouldn't do much better in their shoes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziggytrix

If my car, my house, and all my stuff were suddenly gone, and I was too poor to afford insurance, I'd give thought to going into that jewelry store and recouping some losses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziggytrix

If I didn't know where my next meal was coming from and I was hearing gunfire in the streets, I wouldn't have to think twice about swiping a shotgun and some shells from the Walmart.

Sep 1st, 2005 04:08 PM

ziggytrix

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziggytrix

i do NOT think all the looters are justified in their actions

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziggytrix

i do NOT think all the looters are justified in their actions

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziggytrix

i do NOT think all the looters are justified in their actions

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziggytrix

i do NOT think all the looters are justified in their actions

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziggytrix

i do NOT think all the looters are justified in their actions

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziggytrix

i do NOT think all the looters are justified in their actions

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziggytrix

i do NOT think all the looters are justified in their actions

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziggytrix

i do NOT think all the looters are justified in their actions

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziggytrix

i do NOT think all the looters are justified in their actions

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziggytrix

i do NOT think all the looters are justified in their actions

Sep 1st, 2005 03:59 PM

Preechr

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziggytrix

But be real, when civil society GOES BYE BYE, so do most people's ethics. Whatever, it's fucked up.

Maybe from now on I'll only post in response to extremely "right-wing" things supposedly liberal folks say to point out how a lot of you confuse liberalism (or conservatism for that matter) with authoritarianism.

Ziggy, how do you feel about the idea that society and the structure it "provides" GIVES US our sense of ethics? If I were Judge Roy Moore and I wanted to move to your state in order to join the government and GIVE YOU a better sense of ethics, would you be Ok with that? What you've said so far leads me to agree *gasp* with AChimp's assassment that you are a closet looter yourself.

Society and government comes from us. We don't exist or thrive because society allows us the privilege. If your sense of ethics is something you get from society, doesn't that mean that the only reason you're not completely un-ethical is because you're simply keeping up appearances for your neighbors?

You also seem to have a hard time drawing a line between those that steal bread and those that steal Plasma Televisions. The motivations are entirely different, aren't they?

Since I'm already typing, my solution would be to fence the whole area off and let it stabilize itself once all those that don't want to live in MadMaxWaterWorld are safely out. Give it about two months, time which could be spent devising a good way to pump all that water out, and send some teams in to hunt down/ dig up the piles of jewelry, Nikes and useless electronic booty the looters hoarded up and likely died defending.

Whatever is recovered can be turned over to the insurance companies which actually DO cover acts of God like windstorms and whatnot. They don't cover FLOODs unless flood insurance is purchased separately, and they don't cover those that didn't purchase coverage, and some policies might have funky stipulations for those that live in coastal areas, but if a windstorm knocks your house or business down and you have insurance, your stuff is likely covered.

Insurance companies have gone out of business due to previous hurricanes. That's probably not because they don't cover hurricanes, wouldn't you think?

Chances are those that are stealing TVs in New Orleans haven't suffered some sort of major change in their ethics and/or personalities because they "lost everything they had." It's much more likely that they are the same people now as they were before the storm and they probably never had much to lose in any sense.

Sep 1st, 2005 03:47 PM

ziggytrix

not you specifically. but sure, i think you're an asshole, too.

Sep 1st, 2005 03:27 PM

GAsux

Quote:

do NOT think all the looters are justified in their actions, but i'm really not shocked by them, cuz i kind of think people are assholes, even the ones who go on at length about how morally superior they are.

Are you referring to you or me? Kind of ironic don't you think that you're judging my judgement of others and making veiled references to what you think my sense of moral superiority might be?

By the way, yes, I am morally superior to thugs and criminals stealing things they don't need to survive. Deal with it.

Sep 1st, 2005 03:24 PM

ziggytrix

Quote:

Originally Posted by GAsux

If looting and lawlessness is completely justified in your mind, then you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

did i fucking say that? all i was trying to say is that they are in a totally fucked up situation, and deserve at LEAST as much slack as those jackasses in LA who rioted over that Rodney King beating.

i do NOT think all the looters are justified in their actions, but i'm really not shocked by them, cuz i kind of think people are assholes, even the ones who go on at length about how morally superior they are.

Sep 1st, 2005 03:10 PM

KevinTheOmnivore

Quote:

Originally Posted by AChimp

OH NOES! LET'S PULL OUT TEH SILLY CANADIAN JOKES LOLZ

Funny. But actually, I think the emphasis was on the "animals" coment, which secures you a nomination for the "suspiciously veiled comment of the year" award.

Sep 1st, 2005 02:29 PM

AChimp

OH NOES! LET'S PULL OUT TEH SILLY CANADIAN JOKES LOLZ

In other news:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...h/1282151.html Check the date

And they should be playing this song to get people to leave faster:
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/tragi...issinking.html

Sep 1st, 2005 12:11 PM

KevinTheOmnivore

Right, and the absolute best way to enforce existing law is to practice it in its most extreme form.

You do know that we don't shoot first as the norm here, right? I'm not familiar with the workings on how to deal with "animals" in Canada....

Sep 1st, 2005 11:53 AM

AChimp

Yep. I'm a fascist for thinking that the law needs to be enforced using extreme force under extreme circumstances. You'd only have to shoot a few people before the rest of them remembered that looting is illegal.

Sep 1st, 2005 11:30 AM

GAsux

Im not a fan of moral relativism and quite frankly, people judge people all the time. If you sir would like to come on here and claim to be above that then so be it. If looting and lawlessness is completely justified in your mind, then you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

In mine, there is no justification for taking advantage of a horrible situation to get yourself a new pair of Nike's, a diamond chain, or a 9mm. Not saying that's everyone, but there are plenty doing it and that's disgusting in my eyes becuase clearly I'm a pretentious, insensitive prick.

Sep 1st, 2005 10:17 AM

KevinTheOmnivore

Gimme a break. I don't think AChimp's stance on the matter is the middle-of-the-road, moderate view on this. He's a rare bird-- a Canadian fascist.

I don't think we need to start publicly executing people for looting. But I also don't think it's reactionary to expect a little bit more of people during trying times.

Sep 1st, 2005 09:08 AM

ziggytrix

ok, fine. shoot them, whatever. i don't give a fuck.

Sep 1st, 2005 08:47 AM

KevinTheOmnivore

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziggytrix

yes, because these people are all out there stealing beer and hot dogs. they aren't stealing food, water, weapons, and whatever they think they need to survive.

really, you're being a jackass and looking down on people you've never met who are in a situation you've never faced.

shut the fuck up.

Are you joking, or are you really playing resident sociologist?

I heard that a plane trying to land with medical supplies for needy hospitals couldn't land because 100 (!) looters were roaming the runway. That isn't "trying to survive," that's taking advantage of tragedy and misery. That's a militia.

I can understand people grabbing shit off of Walmart's shelves because they need bottled water and food. But no, I REFUSE to understand the stealing of TVs, appliances, or other superfluous material goods (particularly since you're not going to have electricity, jackass!).

I know desparate people do desparate things, but when it comes down to it, I personally believe it's moments of chaos and lawlessness that test character. Clearly, the looters are a minority of the effected. Does that not mean anything?

Sep 1st, 2005 01:27 AM

Dr. Boogie

Quote:

Originally Posted by AChimp

I hope they start shooting looters.

That would make a good video game, actually.

Looter Shooter.

Sep 1st, 2005 01:19 AM

AChimp

If people weren't such fucking animals, those cops could be could be still searching-and-rescuing. You see, if you allow people to loot from stores and rationalize it by saying, "Oh, the poor souls! They lost everything!", pretty soon it escalates into people stealing from each other. Then you truly have chaos, and for what reason? Because you were apologetic and let things get out of hand early.

It's not like those people aren't going to get any help. They're living in the richest country in the world. Thousands of National Guard troops are out there doing shit, which is a lot more than most other countries can respond with.

I stand by my opinion that the looters should be shot on sight. As for the state of the city, that's what you get for living in a pit by the ocean. There was ample warning to leave. If you can't afford a bus or car, you can walk your fat ass out of town. Like the do in other countries.

Aug 31st, 2005 09:33 PM

ziggytrix

Quote:

Originally Posted by GAsux

IS it also possible that there are people who are robbing shotguns from Wal-Mart not because they need it to protect their families, but simply because they can? Or people who are smashing bricks into ATM machines who DIDN"T "lose everything" but are simply doing it to take advantage of the situation?

Quote:

Originally Posted by I

Look, I'm not saying what they are doing is OK. I think it's pretty fucked up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GAsux

what about the small business owners? What about the people who own the jewelry stores, the grociery stores, etc who likely lost just as much and now have to deal with people robbing thier stores because they somehow deserve it or are justified because the world and their city owes them for what they've lost?

insurance covers theft. it doesn't cover "acts of God". but i feel sorry for the small business owners, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GAsux

Like I said, from experience, for every one person in LA who looted/rioted for a perceived "cause" there were five who did it becuase no one was there to stop them. There was no noble cause, no self preservation. It was plain and simply lawlessness because they could.

REAL anarchy (not that romanticised bullshit OaO likes to drone on about at excruciating length) is like that. It's shitty. But be real, when civil society GOES BYE BYE, so do most people's ethics. Whatever, it's fucked up. But who do you guys think you are to sit in your cozy chairs in your climate controlled environment and pass judgement on people you've never met in a situation you'll (I sincerely hope) never face? Just give it a rest. You wanna put energy into this disaster - let's do something positive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GAsux

I suppose it's possible that it happened but I don't recall hearing stories of widespread looting in the wake of the tsunami. I would venture to guess that many of the people affected by that were equally destitute, if not more so, lost just as much, etc.

i'm sure most of the folks affected by the tsunami did what they had to do to survive. breaking into wal-mart probably wasn't an option for most of them, but don't you remember hearing anything about people hoarding relief supplies? jostling for power and control over who distributed aid in Sri Lanka? all the folks talking about it on the radio didn't really help the aid get to the people any faster.

so, i guess... what's your point? poor people sure are rotten?
rich people can be just as rotten, they just steal more subtley.

example: i just heard Mayor Ray Nagin ordered 1,500 police officers to leave their search-and-rescue mission tonight and return to the streets to stop looting.

people's property has just been valued higher than people's lives.

i'm not happy about any of this.

Aug 31st, 2005 08:33 PM

GAsux

You know the "shut the fuck up" portion of your argument is getting a bit old. God forbid someone have a different opinion. I don't suppose I'll know for certain what I would do if a Cat 5 hurricane decimated my city.

But regardless, I don't understand your hostility. You put forth your scenario of what you'd do in that situation, or what seems reasonable and that's fair enough. Again I'm not knocking those folks.

IS it also possible that there are people who are robbing shotguns from Wal-Mart not because they need it to protect their families, but simply because they can? Or people who are smashing bricks into ATM machines who DIDN"T "lose everything" but are simply doing it to take advantage of the situation?

And finally, before you get back to the shut the fuck upping, I admire your compassion and apologist nature, but what about the small business owners? What about the people who own the jewelry stores, the grociery stores, etc who likely lost just as much and now have to deal with people robbing thier stores because they somehow deserve it or are justified because the world and their city owes them for what they've lost?

Like I said, from experience, for every one person in LA who looted/rioted for a perceived "cause" there were five who did it becuase no one was there to stop them. There was no noble cause, no self preservation. It was plain and simply lawlessness because they could.

I suppose it's possible that it happened but I don't recall hearing stories of widespread looting in the wake of the tsunami. I would venture to guess that many of the people affected by that were equally destitute, if not more so, lost just as much, etc.

Aug 31st, 2005 08:26 PM

AChimp

I think you're a closet looter.

Aug 31st, 2005 08:17 PM

ziggytrix

Your sense of morality is pretty fuckin skewed if you think the penalty for robbing a jewelry store should be death.

Look, I'm not saying what they are doing is OK. I think it's pretty fucked up. But I also think that you've probably never once in your life been in a situation like what any of those people are dealing with, and I think you need to shut the fuck up.

Aug 31st, 2005 08:10 PM

AChimp

There is absolutely no excuse for looting. You are a piece of shit that is simply taking advantage of a terrible situation to get a load of free stuff.

Looters deserve to be shot on sight, without question and regardless of the circumstances.

You lost everything? So what. So did everyone else around you. That doesn't make you special. Losing everything doesn't confer upon you special rights that grant you the privilege to suddenly take what you want.

Aug 31st, 2005 07:52 PM

GAsux

Fair enough. But do you care to venture a guess as to how many are in that situation versus how many are looting jewelry stores simply becuase they can? I honestly can't imagine being so desperate and lost that I'd think robbing a jewelry store would some how compensate me. So now I have nothing, except this ring and some gold chains?

Again, I'm not knocking those people that are doing what they have to do to survive. I'm saying its sad that with all thats gone on that there are those, and I propose a fair amount of them, that have taken advantage of the situation with no regard for decency.

As I said, if not condoning looting makes me insensitive, unrealistic, or any other slander you choose to confer upon me, that's super. I personally don't buy your "it's the environment" argument as there are shitoads of people in the same boat who aren't pillaging their neighborhood stores. People have a choice to make and I don't care how you play it, there's no justification for stealing watches and fax machines while your city is in ruins.

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