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Archduke Tips · #26

The US could benefit from some sort of regulation on weapons sales.

kahljorn · #27

I know you said "Weapon sales" but I've noticed a rash of articles about weapon laws:

Kansas’ concealed carry law took effect January 1, 2007. On January 19, two armed men burst into a gas station owned by Dean Yee. According to police, they twice demanded money from Yee while holding him at gunpoint. A customer inside the store, however, had a concealed-carry permit. He shouted for the robbers to drop their weapons. When they refused, he shot one suspect before the other fled. Station owner Yee feels lucky to be alive. “I would have been shot in the chest,” he told 27 News. Kansas Sen. Phil Journey, (R-Haysville) added, “Hopefully this will put other criminals and thugs on notice that Kansas is a different state today
than it was just 20 days ago.” (The Topeka Capital-Journal, Topeka, KS, 01/23/07)

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Raymond Hill’s 12-year-old daughter woke him up with startling news: two people were trying to break into their home. Police say Hill loaded a .40-caliber handgun and went downstairs, where he saw one of the suspects removing a screen from the rear window. The suspect continued trying to break in, and Hill shot and killed him. Police nabbed the second suspect as he attempted to flee on a bicycle. (Las Vegas Review-Journal, Las Vegas, NV, 01/24/07)

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Isaac Wilson pulled over to take a cell phone call when a career criminal approached. The man pointed from inside his clothes with what Wilson thought was a gun. He then told Wilson to get out of the car. They traded places, and then Wilson ordered the carjacker to get out. Police say the carjacker rushed toward Wilson acting as though he had a weapon. “That’s why I pulled my gun,” says Wilson. He shot his assailant once. The suspect was listed in fair condition at the hospital. (WTHR13 News, Indianapolis, IN, 01/26/07)

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When two armed men approached a residence and flashed a handgun, the fearful person inside let them in. The resident’s compliance only emboldened the intruders. Police say a shot rang out, and a relative in an upstairs apartment hurried down with a rifle. He shot both suspects, killing one and causing the other to flee. The wounded suspect was apprehended at the hospital. Authorities in Schenectady, N.Y., say it was the fourth case in two months in which a would-be victim shot an intruder. (Albany Times Union, Albany, NY, 01/20/07)

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Police say a man and a woman were getting into their car outside a Wal-Mart when an attacker shoved a pistol into the man’s stomach and demanded the keys. The woman pulled a pistol from the glove box and fired five shots at the carjacker, who dropped his pistol and ran away. He was arrested at a hospital where he sought treatment for a gunshot wound. “We’re kind of hailing (the man and woman) as heroes,” said Richland County, S.C., Sheriff Leon Lott. The suspect stands accused of committing nine additional armed robberies in less than a month. (The State, Columbia, SC, 01/17/07)

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The safety of his mother and nephew was all 22-year-old Phillip Mendoza could think about after six armed men invaded their home. Mendoza snuck into a bedroom and grabbed a shotgun. “I knew they had my mom with a gun and my little nephew,” he recalls. Police say one of the intruders kicked open the bedroom door and Mendoza fired a load of buckshot, critically injuring the suspect. Then another intruder appeared in the doorway and Mendoza fired again, killing one of the men. The other intruders and the wounded suspect fled. Two were apprehended. (The Tucson Citizen, Tucson, AZ, 01/04/07)

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Sonya Dople and her boyfriend, Charles Green, were getting ready for dinner when two masked men burst inside with a BB gun. Police say the men held the gun to Dople’s head and forced her to the ground. That’s when Green came around the corner, pointing his gun at the intruders and demanding their departure. When they refused, he shot one of the suspects and they fled the home. “If we hadn’t had the gun and [Green] hadn’t done that … we could’ve been dead today,” said Dople. (WATE6 News, Knoxville, TN, 01/11/07)

http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/20...asp&frame=true

kahljorn · #28

Today's Nuze: April 16, 2007

Monday - April 16, 2007

CARNAGE AT VIRGINIA TECH

Like me, I'm sure many of you are busy tracking the news stories out of Blacksburg, Virginia. A person, presumably a student, armed with two semi-automatic pistols has hilled at least 32 people. The shooter is dead. Whether by his own hand, or at the hands of law enforcement, is not yet known.
As the initial shock wears off you can bet that the anti-Second Amendment people wall be coming out of the woodwork. By the time the evening network newscasts hit we will have no shortage of spokesmen for various anti-gun groups stepping forth to issue their tired call for an end to the private ownership of handguns.
This is undoubtedly the worst school shooting, high school, college or otherwise, in the history of our country. There are some facts, however, about some of these school shootings of which you probably are not aware. Do you know, for instance, that at least three shootings in high schools were stopped by civilians with guns? Civilians, not law enforcement. In one case a civilian was traveling past a school when he saw children running from the building. One told him that there was a student inside shooting people. The civilian pulled his gun, ran in side, and confronted the student. The student put down the gun and surrendered. In another case a high school vice-principal heard that there was a student in the hallways with a gun. He sprinted a half-mile to his car. He had a gun in his car so he had to park off campus. He then sprinted back with the gun to confront the student. Lives saved.
The point here is that you are never ever going to get the guns out of the hands of those who want to use them for carnage. Never. Gun control programs will only succeed in getting the guns out of the hands of people who want them and need them for self-defense. Never, in the history of America's gun control movement, has anyone set forth a viable program to get the guns out of the hands of those who would use them to commit crimes. Similarly, the gun control movement will never give any fair coverage at all to the people who use guns to save their own lives, or the lives of others.
We'll have much more to say about this tomorrow. For now, you should know that earlier this year the Virginia General Assembly failed to act on House Bill 1572. This bill would have allowed college students and employees to carry handguns on campus --- with appropriate permits, of course. It died in subcommittee. Larry Hincker, a spokesman for Virginia Tech, the site of today's carnage, said "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."
Well .. how's today for safety?
If it had been legal for students, employees or faculty members with permits to carry guns on the campus, is it at all possible that there might be some students alive today who didn't make it through the carnage? Do you think the actions of the Virginia General Assembly stopped the gunman from getting his guns and carrying them to the campus?
More on this tomorrow.

http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2007/04/17/va-tech-wrongly-safer-without-carry-permits-prior-massacre/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fboortz.com%2Fnuze%2F200704%2F041 62007.html&frame=true

kahljorn · #29

here's something short for people who don't want to read through two stories.. i just happened to see those two on the front page. The latter looks like a blog or something, the first looks almost like a political message... this one looks slightly more like a news story:

Incidentally, the FBI’s Uniform Crime Report shows that even though there are about 47,000 shooting deaths annually – mostly crime-on-crime – there are more than 2.5 million incidents of average Joe and Josephine Citizen using their gun to stop a crime, based on reports handed in to the FBI by law enforcement nationwide.

http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2007/01/31/concealed-carry-of-weapons-superior-to-taking-weapons/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmensnewsdaily.com%2F2007%2F01%2F 28%2Fconcealed-carry-of-weapons-superior-to-taking-weapons%2F&frame=true

Protoclown · #30

Quote:

Originally Posted by theapportioner

What the hell is wrong with people?

...

This, and an especially brutal rape that happened to a student in New York City, have really really unnerved me the past couple days.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/04172007...ndy_geller.htm

Holy shit, Jeff, I just read that article about the rape and that was fucking disturbing as hell. That poor fucking girl.

And Kahl, thanks for posting all these links you've been finding.

kahljorn · #31

you're welcome if you're not being sarcastic.

The reason they are being released probably has something to do with this story, so i thought it was interesting. I also saw a story about how they want to give teachers concealed weapons permits.
Good idea.

KevinTheOmnivore · #32

Kahl, check out www.memeorandum.com. They compile all sorts of articles and blogs on current events, and the gun control issue is a big one right now...

Preechr · #33

the same spokesman for VT releasing info now was the guy that thanked the Va legislature for not passing a law, just last year, that would have allowed concealed weapons on university property...

Guns don't kill people, crazy fuckers with no regard for human life do. Sometimes, they use guns... but they'd probably be just as happy using whatever else they could find to kill people with.

KevinTheOmnivore · #34

I'm thinking he might've had a hard time with a samurai sword, or even a weapon that wasn't automatic?

We do have the right to bear bunker busters, I mean, I have my rights. Cold dead hand, Tom Selleck, etc.

kahljorn · #35

yea preechr the second article/blog i posted mentioned that.

i think it's a very good point that guns in the hands of civilianz can lesson the severity of crime. Likewise, attempting to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and insane people might be a good idea. ITS A TWO PRONGED ATTACK for success

thanks kevin that site has some interesting stories. I saw mention of that professor who got shot but hadn't actually read the details, and they had them there.

theapportioner · #36

Quote:

Originally Posted by RussoNWM

The US could benefit from some sort of regulation on weapons sales.

There's been much speculation that the shooter was suffering from a mental illness, and it wouldn't surprise me if that turns out to be the case. Should gun sales be prohibited or heavily restricted to those who have a history of conditions that might predispose them to violence to oneself or to others?

kahljorn · #37

people who are released from mental institutions are not allowed to own or purchase a gun. they even have to sign wavers to not attempt to purchase one.
that restriction only lasts like a year and a half, though.

MetalMilitia · #38

Phelps family plan to picket VT Students' funerals

How long do they think they can pull this shit without someone blowing up their so-called church?

Grislygus · #39

Inbred fuckers. Hopefully they won't get anything out of it.

Archduke Tips · #40

kahl,
I'm not saying don't allow anyone to have guns. I'm just saying maybe require some sort of psychological test or a class to be taken before people can buy a gun.

As a point of reference, I have an 8-shot pump action shotgun for home defense.

El Blanco · #41

I hope you don't live in a studio apartment

kahljorn · #42

I know dude, that's why I said at the begining that, "I know you are talking about weapon sales."

They should just make it so that you can't own/purchase a handgun unless you have a concealed carry license, because that's one of the few purposes of a handgun versus a rifle -- it's concealable. Although, I guess it's also more mobile and such as well, all the same, the main purpose of a handgun is that you can hide it or easily carry it around (usually people carry handguns around concealed, though, not on their waist in plain view).
I'm assuming they do some type of tests for concealable weapon permits.

MetalMilitia · #43

I'm sure one of the news articles said that the weapons the guy used had their serial numbers filed off. Doesn't that pretty much guarantee they weren't legal anyway?

I don't think it's that you guys need a whole lot more gun laws, you just need to start enforcing the ones you already have a bit more effectively. Most school shootings were facilitated by parents not locking guns up properly or the illegal weapons trade - neither of which would be affected a great deal by more laws being brought into action.

Protoclown · #44

Metal, the guns were apparently purchased legally at a gun show, so he probably just filed off the serial numbers because he was BATSHIT CRAZY.

And if Fred Phelps and his ilk show up picketing at any of the memorial services/funerals for the victims, I sincerely hope that they get their fucking asses kicked.

Kahl, I know my dad has a concealed carry permit, so I'll have to ask him what all was involved with him getting it.

Esuohlim · #45

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetalMilitia

Phelps family plan to picket VT Students' funerals

How long do they think they can pull this shit without someone blowing up their so-called church?

I already mentioned this on page one you thunder stealing little

And getting their asses kicked is what they're hoping for anyway, right? Most of the Phelpses are lawyers and they know exactly how to play their cards so that they can get into lawsuits and gain more money and attention for their stupid fucking church

kahljorn · #46

lol, those phelps guys are jerks -- this is the first ive ever heard of them. Does freespeech extend to bias and stupidity? Like if we had a protest that all black people are stupid and have low intelligence and shouldn't be allowed in school, it wouldn't be allowed because it's untrue -- some might say because it's "racist", but i think it's wrong because it's untrue and perpetuates fallacy, which is what racism is.

Actually i think guns that have the serial filed off are usually "Legal," to some extent, because there's no point in filing off the serial of something that doesn't belong to you anyway, since it couldn't be traced to you. Balistics can match the gun, anyway, regardless of serial.

Metal, I'd agree with you, but those articles I posted have a clear causal connection between gun laws (one gun law) and the prevention of crime. Although, obviously, it has little affect on criminal possession of guns.

that'd be cool proto, I'm curious as to if it's difficult to get one. To be honest, I know one person who has a concealed permit, and most people would probably think he shouldn't have it, but he hasn't been convicted of any crimes that I know of...

Preechr · #47

I know its pretty easy where I live. Basically, you just have to say you need to have a concealed weapon to be safe doing something you do regularly, like taking cash to the bank. They do a background check, but most people can pass that.

To test further or to require cc permits for handguns wouldn't pass Constitutional muster. The NRA could defeat that while sleeping with one arm tied behind it's back.

As MM indicated, the only thing that will decrease gun violence effectively or even at all is gun owners all of a sudden becoming, somehow, more responsible. Since the world we live in seems to be increasingly all about ceding any and all personal responsibility to our employers and our government, I doubt that's gonna happen anytime soon.

On that note, I work in schools a lot, and I've noticed a pretty much standardized rule pertaining to fighting in school. I'm sure some of you younger folks are familiar with it, but this sort of mentality simply did not exist when I was younger... If there is a fight, everyone involved is punished equally, regardless of who started it or anything else.

Back in MY day (lol) school administrators would sit down with the combatants and try to figure out what had happened and mete out appropriate punishments. That paradigm has shifted, and even pure self-defense is no longer acceptable.

The same progressive mentality that has spawned the concept basically any reprehensible behavior between adults is generally understandable on some level due to "environmental factors" has also given us two generations of drugged out kids with "ADHD" and the above rule that only seems to exist to punish victims of assault and "environmentally" condition children to be defenseless, needy cow-people.

Now we see a scenario where 25 of these conditioned children lined up to be murdered one at a time. It only gets worse from here, people.