gaza bombing (you knew I was going to bring this up!)

[Big McLargehuge]

religion has always been a tool of those in power. the basis of the conflict is that two religions claim the same little shitty strip of sand as their cultural point of origin. it doesn't matter if the people controlling the armies believe or not, and they probably don't, if the people actually fighting the fight think they are fighting on the side of god.

[derrida]

Serious question for abcdxxxx: Why do you think the Israelis didn't do more to curtail Hamas throughout its history? Surely there were segments of the Israeli power structure who could have forseen that a bottom-up, grassroots religious movement who took great care to eliminate internal corruption would become a far more formidable opponent than the crumbling, hated and notoriously corrupt Fatah party?

On a larger scale, wouldn't you agree that true socialism is vastly preferable to the absolutely insane division of wealth and the islamofascist paradigm nurtured by the west ever since the third reich sent advisors to cairo?

[Abcdxxxx]

Originally Posted by derrida

Serious question for abcdxxxx: Why do you think the Israelis didn't do more to curtail Hamas throughout its history?

Israel's always had a bunch of nutjobs in the government who were desperate to make peace in the most self defeating manner possible. So at the time it was illegal to even negotiate with the PLO, there were groups like Peace Now pushing to find Arab leadership amongst the Arabs who would act as peace partners, and still have some control.

Initially the shortsighted idea was that religion would be a good influence on the Palestinians, and that Israel could help bolster some opposition to the Marxist revolutionary splinter groups under Arafat & Co. The support was very short lived, and Hamas turned out to be a monster.... but it's all relative. Marwan Barghouti is a name Israel still dances around as a possible moderate they can support...and he's in an Israeli jail.

I don't realy have an answer for you, because I suppose your question is meant to suggest that Israel allowed Hamas to rise to power purposely so that the Palestinians would adopt the most extreme leadership possible. I'm sure that was one of the 1000 strategies tossed around and never commited to along the way. In between world outrage over targeted killings of Hamas spiritual leaders, etc. What more could they have done? How should they be handling Islamic Jihad for example? Or the more regional problem of Muslim Brotherhood for that matter?

Originally Posted by derrida

On a larger scale, wouldn't you agree that true socialism is vastly preferable to the absolutely insane division of wealth and the islamofascist paradigm nurtured by the west ever since the third reich sent advisors to cairo?

Actually that happened the other way around. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem went to Germany, and advised on their Jewish problem.

Who was offering a true Socialism though?

[Abcdxxxx]

Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge

religion has always been a tool of those in power. the basis of the conflict is that two religions claim the same little shitty strip of sand as their cultural point of origin. it doesn't matter if the people controlling the armies believe or not, and they probably don't, if the people actually fighting the fight think they are fighting on the side of god.

Someone told you that's the basis of the conflict, or you watched a CNN special....but that doesn't make it true. Israel was established in 1948, and existed for about 20 years without Jerusalem or it's holiest sites. Hebron is the second holiest site in the bible, and Israel will be unilaterally handing it over to Arab control, since it has been an Arab dominated town ever since they ran Jews out during the pogroms in 1929.

You may also be unaware that the religious parties in Israel have always been exempt from fighting, and until recently did not serve in the army.