Haiti

[Colonel Flagg]

Nope. We gave Saddam Hussein guns and ammo in the '80s so he could bomb Iran, but he ended up bombing the Kurds. Then he took it a step further annexing our oil in Kuwait, which resulted in our slapping him on the wrist and making him promise to never do it again.

We started the Taliban also in the early '80s when the USSR was getting their butts handed to them in Afghanistan (and we here were calling it their "Vietnam"). Aid was funnelled to the "northern alliance" which was really a bunch of tribal leaders who hated each other, but hated the Russians more. The Taliban was formed out of that group.

By tools I was referring to intellectual property - education, teachers, books - not AK-47s, F17s, RPGs and assorted chemical warheads.

I fully admit I'm living in "DREAMLAND". In retrospect, you are correct, it's the latter that we end up providing.

[Grislygus]

Originally Posted by Ant10708

I don't see the concept of the United Nations performing acts like paving roads and building hospitals with actual foundations in poor countries to be so completely outrageous and mock worthy.

Oh, okay. That makes sense, you were just talking about run-of-the-mill aids packages, only more practical and hands-on than the usual liberal bullshit. Yeah, that would definitely be far more effective than the current policy of ignoring poverty-stricken areas. This was my mistake, it sounded like you were actually-

impose martial law, and reconstruct the culture is obviously stuff your mind made up because you get jumpy and think colonialism when any country gets involved with another.

What? You want a governing body with no standing army to invade a country and impose martial law because it's a shithole? You do realize that there are LAWS, right? That have international implications? because they are INTERNATIONAL LAWS? No, of course you don't. That's just gibberish to you. Same with "standing army". You see United Nations forces on television and can't discern the difference, because you have the intellectual capacity of a twelve year old.

Reconstruct the culture? How? What's the goddamn plan? Whaddaya gonna do, give them suits? Enact Apharteid and import Dutchmen? Abduct children in the night and send them to English boarding schools, what? You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

What, does your personal fantasy involve the sudden change in centuries of behavior and the mud peoples' newfound love for their white saviors? Wait, you do, because you made the point of specifically mentioning colonialism.

You don't understand human psychology, you don't even know what the word 'anthropology' means, you live in a fantasy world and are the type of uncomfortable retard that regularly (and unknowingly) embarrasses themselves whenever they try to discuss politics in social settings.

[Ant10708]

Originally Posted by Grislygus

This was my mistake, it sounded like you were actually-
What? You want a governing body with no standing army to invade a country and impose martial law because it's a shithole? You do realize that there are LAWS, right? That have international implications? because they are INTERNATIONAL LAWS? No, of course you don't. That's just gibberish to you. Same with "standing army". You see United Nations forces on television and can't discern the difference, because you have the intellectual capacity of a twelve year old.

Reconstruct the culture? How? What's the goddamn plan? Whaddaya gonna do, give them suits? Enact Apharteid and import Dutchmen? Abduct children in the night and send them to English boarding schools, what? You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

What, does your personal fantasy involve the sudden change in centuries of behavior and the mud peoples' newfound love for their white saviors? Wait, you do, because you made the point of specifically mentioning colonialism.

You don't understand human psychology, you don't even know what the word 'anthropology' means, you live in a fantasy world and are the type of uncomfortable retard that regularly (and unknowingly) embarrasses themselves whenever they try to discuss politics in social settings.

No I think you are an idiot who can't read posts. I quoted the impose martial law and change culture and pointed out thats NOT what I meant and that you are jumping to the idea of colonialism when in reality the united nations could help poor countries(that are members) without doing either of those things. I know you love reading your posts but I don't so try to read mine correctly before going on a big boring rant.

Here this can be applied to you "You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about."you live in a fantasy world and are the type of uncomfortable retard that regularly (and unknowingly) embarrasses themselves whenever they try to discuss politics in social settings."

And good job calling haitians "mudpeople". I'm sure people here take your remarks much more seriously now. I can just imagine you misreading my earlier post and getting all excited that you get to response. OMG HE SAID MARTIAL LAW AND CHANGE THE CULTURE OMG WHAT AN IDIOT. To bad I suggested neither. It be nice if the politics section of this board wasn't filled with complete tools with way to much free time on their hands to make shitty jokes on a message board or with the inability to comprehend english. Its ok to have a disscussion with a differing opinion without thinking your of supreme intellect especially when your misreading the other persons opinion. GRisygus wins. he is smartest man on internet!

[Grislygus]

You don't even know what you mean! You have no clue! You bring up this condescending prattle about how if other countries REALLY cared they would have walked in and "fixed" these countries before they were hit by disasters and asked for help. This is stupid.

HELPFUL NOTE:

If a country in no way asks for foreign help in running their country

And foreign countries decides that they will intervene anyway because this country is minding its business in the wrong way, with the intention of "fixing" that country

It is a territorial invasion! It is illegal! And you HAVE TO HAVE PEACEKEEPERS IN ORDER TO KEEP YOUR CUTE LITTLE SOCIALLY-RENOVATING TASK FORCES FROM GETTING THEIR ASSES KICKED TO THE CURB

You are recommending that a government body intervenes. You are not mentioning private enterprises or charitable foundations. You mentioned the UNITED NATIONS.

COUNTRIES DO NOT WELCOME FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS TAKING OVER. I don't care if you don't think that you're talking about martial law and imperialism, you are. It is a necessity unless someone requires help. You are not taliking about "help".

You are talking the United Nations "fixing"

an entire country

without their consent.

I don't care WHAT hypothetical scenarios you bring up. "Shitholes" like Haiti, Jamaica, Somalia, Yemen, Pakistan, and Ethipia HAVE NEVER ASKED FOR FOREIGN BEAUROCRACIES TO MOVE PERSONNEL, MILITARY OR OTHERWISE, ONTO THEIR SOVERIEGN SOIL. They would FIGHT any such personnel. They would ARREST any such personnel. You cannot "fix" someone elses country without permission, and the only way to attempt it is through military force, which always fails. They never will ask for help unless an unseen natural disaster cripples their entire country. ONLY THEN is foreign intervention welcome.

If you had brought up private enterprises and charitable foundations working with the local government to improve conditions and initiate reform, your point of view would be VALID. It would also be redundant, as this is already happening in the real world.

You did not bring up private enterprises. You did not bring up charitable foundations. You didn't even bring up individuals. You certainly never, at any point, mentioned or cared about the willingness (and inevitable hostile reaction) of the local government being "fixed. You are discussing the UNITED NATIONS. You spouted off with a condescending, brainless comment about IF PEOPLE REALLY CARED and got dragged into an argument without ever thinking out your position properly


To reiterate:
-You discussed "fixing" a government, in particular governments that would NEVER cooperate
-Whether you believe that military force is required or not is irrelevant. Unless you are talking about a fantasy world where these governments WANT the United Nations to completely restructure and "fix" these same governments (which I believe you are), military force is required. It is also pointless, stupid, and morally questionable.
-The mention of the United Nations being the ones to magically "fix" "shitholes" remains retarded.

[Ant10708]

Haiti never asked the UN for help before the earthquake? Your a fucking moron and is so set on being right you are ignoring facts and comparing poor Caribbean nations to poor countries in the middle east. Also your post is way to long so I def won't be reading it.


On 23 February 2004, the United Nations Security Council was convened at the request of CARICOM(The Caribbean Community (CARICOM)), is an organization of 15 Caribbean nations and dependencies. for the first time in four years to address the deteriorating situation in Haiti.

On 30 April 2004, MINUSTAH was established and given its mandate with a military component of up to 6,700 troops.

MINUSTAH, an acronym of the French translation, is a United Nationspeacekeeping mission in Haiti that has been in operation since 2004. The mission's military component is led by the Brazilian Army. The force commander is Brazilian. The current UN mission is authorized until October 15, 2010. The force is composed of 8,940 military personnel and 3,711 police, supported by an international civilian personnel, a local civilian staff and United Nations Volunteers.

In July the General Assembly authorized the financing of the mission with $200 million. which followed a donors' conference in Washington DC.

In September the interim president of Haiti, Boniface Alexandre, spoke to the United Nations General Assembly in support of MINUSTAH. Haiti giving their consent! Wow you were wrong and a total tool!


grisygus you seem to be an asshole who is intent on being right even though you don't have your facts right. So the haitians have been fighting the brazilian led militray and police forces in their country? Funny I never heard about that. Must of been lost in all the headlines about them arresting un personnel lol. your a fucking moron and I'm done with this thread so please spare everyone else and stop responding. good luck haiti