Universal Health Care

[TheCoolinator]

Originally Posted by Zhukov

UHHHHHHHHH no. My original question was "why are you using the term 'genocide'

That's your question not THE original question.

they will be refusing care which may lead to death. Killing by proxy at a MASSIVE stretch.

^ Your quote.

The US people are a group of individuals that will be affected by the recently discovered Death panels. Meaning the American people will be allowed to die because of it. Meaning a group of individuals from a specific country will die because of the cuts in benefits.

^ My quote.

This should answer your question.

Because there is a difference between "being allowed to die" and the deliberate and forcible elimination of this group.

"Allow to die"

Wouldn't that be....murder? on the US people....which would be....Genocide since it's a specific group of people?

Why would Obama target this national group that HE HIMSELF BELONGS TO? For it to be genocide against the US people (your words) then the entirety of that group has to be targeted. If it's not targeting people for their national heritage (or race, religion etc) then it's not genocide.

ummm....Politicians who work for international companies don't care who they harm in their actions. This is common sense. Did Stalin care that he committed genocide against millions of Russian people? No. Because he was an oligarch. He ruled. He wasn't a russian. He was the Leader of the russians. I'm not saying Stalin worked for any kind of corporate enterprise but his space in history is very similar to the callous nature of our present day politicians.

And I'm an American Citizen born here in the united states. My national heritage is that of the USA. I don't understand where you're going with this. It's all very strange.

If the Death Panels (which are real) kill US Citizens then that's a genocide against the US population. No different if it was a genocide against the British or Icelandic or Russian.

gen·o·cide
the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.

[Zhukov]

An interesting point for everyone but Coolinator; most of what people think of as Stalin's "genocides" are not in fact genocides. Hundreds of thousands of people were imprisoned, executed, starved or relocated, but because Stalin was part of the team that made up what the UN considers "genocide", they omitted political views alongside race, nation, religion etc from the treatise...

So, while genocides against many ethnic peoples still went on in the USSR; against the Cossacks for example, most people killed were killed because they were an enemy of the state for political or economical reasons, rather than racial or religious ones. Interesting, huh?

Now, back to banging my head against a wall:

the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national group

By your imagination Death Panels will be responsible for killing people through lack of care. Murder, as you see it. US citizens will die. They wont, however, be targeted by "Death Panels" with aim of eliminating them as a national group.

This is completely absurd.

Are Death Panels rounding up US citizens wherever they find them and killing them? Are US citizens forced to leave their country as refugees because of persecution? Are your Death Panels actively intent on destroying the nation of the USA?

Are they?


ARE THEY REALLY DOING THAT?

If the Death Panels (which are real) kill US Citizens then that's a genocide against the US population.

So if some mugger kills two people in a bungled hold up, and those two people are US citizens, is that genocide against the US population? Hell, the mugger might go out and do it again, killing three more people. Again on Sunday, killing an old lady. Genocide, right? I mean, serial killers are committing genocide against the US population. Obviously.

[TheCoolinator]

Originally Posted by Dimnos

"The deliberate and systematic extermination" is the part Zhukov is having trouble with. He never once said that the American people as a national group couldnt be the target of genocide. Just that they arent.

So, when the healthcare commission (Death panels) start rationing care, who will be affected by this?

If the answer will be the US population then wouldn't that be a form of Genocide, Murder, immoral behavior all done with malice of forethought?

Originally Posted by Zhukov

An interesting point for everyone but Coolinator; most of what people think of as Stalin's "genocides" are not in fact genocides. Hundreds of thousands of people were imprisoned, executed, starved or relocated, but because Stalin was part of the team that made up what the UN considers "genocide", they omitted political views alongside race, nation, religion etc from the treatise...

Anyone else see a problem with this statement? ^^^^

Originally Posted by Zhukov

So, while genocides against many ethnic peoples still went on in the USSR; against the Cossacks for example, most people killed were killed because they were an enemy of the state for political or economical reasons, rather than racial or religious ones.

Were they citizens of the USSR? Were they part of a national group of individuals? Thus....Genocide?

gen·o·cide
the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.

Originally Posted by Zhukov

By your imagination Death Panels will be responsible for killing people through lack of care. Murder, as you see it.

Sorry, I have to stop you right there. If you allow someone to die because of lack of care....then in a court of law that would be seen as murder. Especially when you're a public servant and your job is to protect the well being of the people whom you work for. This is common knowledge.

Originally Posted by Zhukov

US citizens will die. They wont, however, be targeted by "Death Panels" with aim of eliminating them as a national group.

If you target and ration US citizens health benefits.......what do you think will happen to the individual in question when they need a serious operation and or expensive medication to continue living?

Originally Posted by Zhukov

Are Death Panels rounding up US citizens wherever they find them and killing them? Are US citizens forced to leave their country as refugees because of persecution? Are your Death Panels actively intent on destroying the nation of the USA?

They don't need to. They'll just deny their health benefits. No need to hunt them. If they need insulin or an operation....they'll just say "no". Simple as that.....hence why they're called DEATH PANELS. lol. Wow, you're pretty dense my friend. Sharp as a marble too. :