What the Hell is going on in Afghanistan?

[mburbank]

Okay, first we officially announce that this spring we intend to launch major military operations in Afghanistan near the Pakastani border. I'm not sure if this is just some sort of emily post type etiquit or if there's some strategic reason to let your enemy know when you plan to attack, it's kind of fuzzy.

Then there are all these news reports that we're zeroing in on Bin Laden, a man who's name has hardly been mentioned in about a year.

Then the military says no, we're not zeroing in on him, if we knew where he was, we'd already have him.

Now, this:

U.S. Pressing Hunt for Osama Bin Laden


By STEPHEN GRAHAM, Associated Press Writer

KABUL, Afghanistan - The U.S. military said Wednesday that a "renewed sense of urgency" is firing the search for Osama bin Laden , even as it dismissed reports that the fugitive al-Qaida leader had been located near the Afghan-Pakistan border.




What does that MEAN?! Did our sense of urgency about capturing the guy responsible for 9/11 somehow LAPSE for a while there? During the time the administration didn't even mention his name, did the actual head of the actual terrorist organization we are supposedly at war with kind of get back burnered?

In the above quoted article, the same military official goes on to say that "The sands of time are running out" for Bin Laden. How could he possibly know? How many times can you say the Noose is tightening? Is it tightening really, really, slowly? re we using that headline every time the noose tightens a millionth of a micrometer? Were some earlier noose tightening reports premature? Or maybe it's a really really big noose that can be tightened for a very, very long time before it's actually around anything?

[Ninjavenom]

This just in: Max Burbank posts boring news! OaO draws near!

[DamnthatDavid]

You have to understand that Osama has grown up fighting in those Mountains on the boarder. Fighting the Russians, fighting the Americans, fighting the Northern Alliances, and the area is full of mountains. Not the rain and snow worn ones of the United States, but raw, sharp and very pointy looking. The tightening of the noose has started "finally" after months of political dealings Pakastani Government. Getting some support.

Last I heard, 3 of our sattelites are zoned in over a 75 square mile area, and all our elite troops (delta, Rangers, etc) are zeroing in on this area. But the going is slow, for they have to check every small bit of land, and be wary of the troops, who are in a religious jihad.

That is what they say. But I believe that the U.S. has already captured him, but Bush is keeping it hush hush until Election Time.

[Ronnie Raygun]

Yeah....I'm sure Usama has a satellite hookup in all his caves.....

[DamnthatDavid]

Well Ronnie, you have just proven to me how dumb someone can be without trying.

I assumed that the people at this board would undoubtly make the connections:
Wartime, Satellites, Searching,
and form a a conclusion...
Satellites = Spy Satellites!!!
*gasp*

Hey! Look!

http://pbskids.org/

Something you can understand! YIPEE FOR YOU!

[Zhukov]

Osama has grown up fighting in those Mountains

...ever since he was a wee lad in Saudi Arabia.

There is nothing going on you conspiracy buffs! Just ease up!

[mburbank]

OMG, I don't mean a conspiracy, I mean an inept series of fuck-ups starting with Tora Bora and going on until now, what I believe the military privately refer to as a clusterfuck.

Not what the hell are we doing as in 'what's secretly happening'

but

what the hell are we doing as in 'what the fuck is all this crapola?'

[Ronnie Raygun]

I still don't see why one would construe this situation as a clusterfuck.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

http://www.i-mockery.net/viewtopic.php?t=10216

[The One and Only...]

Originally Posted by mburbank

...if there's some strategic reason to let your enemy know when you plan to attack...

You think about that the next time you support going through the UN.

Not that I support the war, or anything.

[sspadowsky]

"That wasn't a war. A war is when TWO armies are fighting."
-Bill Hicks

[mburbank]

My God, you're an idiot. The whole point of going through the UN is to avoid war at all costs. When the UN sanctions a war, you loose the element of surprise, but you have the community of nations at your back. The buildup should encourage your foe to negotiate or capitualte, as it did in Iraq. Unfortunately, that wasn't enough for us.

Our plan in Afghanistan is to act unilaterally and tell them first. Do we suppose they'll be so scared they'll give up?

Clusterfuck in Hait: Disparate chaotic forces overthrow a corupt but democratically elected government. Anarachy ensues. Totally lawless countries are ideal and fertile fields for terrorists. Haiti is way closer to home than Iraq. Clusterfuck.

[Zhukov]

The whole point of going through the UN is to avoid war at all costs.

Do you mean all the time, or just for the latest Afghan war?

"Clusterfuck" in Afghanistan: US has been employing a strategy heavily dependent upon local allies. The US air force is bombing what they describe as "pockets of resistance". Afghan warlords tell the US to bomb "Taliban" forces in a certain location, when in fact they are bombing rival warlords.

The US has been unable to establish anything resembling stability. It has created the impression of some semblance of order in Kabul – where the "national" government is located – but outside Kabul, they have little or no control. The American forces do not even control the same territory that the Soviet army controlled in 1979-1989. In fact, the US is not really attempting to control the entire territory of Afghanistan. The U.S. is maintaining the fiction of a "united" Afghanistan, without providing any troops to enforce central rule. The NATO-led International Security Assistance Force patrols only Kabul and the surrounding area, while various regional warlords and their soldiers rule their respective territories.

Al Qaeda and its sympathizers remain free to roam largely at will and conduct hit and run guerrilla attacks. Although al Qaeda can no longer use Afghanistan as a major training base, it is still active there and is using the country as a launching pad to send its fighters into Iraq, they may not have been present before the invasion – but they certainly are now!

All that the American imperialists have managed to do is to spread instability to other parts of the region – especially, but not only, Pakistan.

Contrary to 'Damn That Davids' ideas on global weather, snow does in fact make it to the mountains of Afghanistan and Pakistan, and I am guessing that the winter weather is just in it's last days. The winter weather and the mountains do not permit the deployment of tanks and other equipment needed for conventional modern warfare. Americas technological advantage is severely reduced. Above all, their enemies can count on the support and sympathy of the local Pushtoon population, wh ohave hated almost every foreign invader. (Can you guess which one that some Pushtoon villages sent young men to fight with?)

The onset of Spring will create more favourable conditions for a new offensive by the United States. Hence, the 'major' millitary ofensive planned. This kind of timescale also has a political logic; assuming a favourable outcome (although this is a lot to assume) it would coincide neatly with the Democratic National Convention in... July...right? Since Bush feels sad about to the accusations concerning his military record (or lack there of), a military success in Afghanistan would be welcome.

A blow against al Qaeda would be a good way of diverting American public opinion away from this bloody mess and increase the Presidents ratings. But there is a problem, after the blitz of Afghanistan early on Al Qaeda is now based in Pakistan! With its usual arrogance, US imperialism is mercilessly pressurising its "ally" Musharraf. they are telling him: either you sort out al Qaeda, or we do it for you! So it is not very popular "support"...

CLUSTERFUCK

[DamnthatDavid]

Not the rain and snow worn ones of the United States

I didn't say it doesn't snow, just not the heavy stuff of the United States. The mountains are rugged in Afghan, steeper, sharper. The mountains have not yet been worn down as much.

Don't discount America's Army yet.
Our standard troops are better then any troops in the middle east.
And our elite troops are, dare I say it, better, or at least on par, to the best any other country could throw at us.

[Dole]

Yeah....no-one kills their own and other allied troops with such effiency as the Americans.

[GAsux]

Max,
I think for the folsk on the ground the emphasis hasn't changed. They've been actively pursuing bin Laden with varying degrees of success based upon the level of support they've gotten. The dispute, of flip flop as it may be is more of a stated policy problem in my opinion. That is the actual policy ont he ground in Afghanistan has not changed. The method by which the talking heads wish to sell it is what's been a matter of debate.

Dole,
I suppose that discredits his point? I suppose those guys are actually just bumbling morons that drop bombs on each others heads all day because they're incompetent. I probably understand where you were going there, but I think you were a bit overdramatic in your point.

[DamnthatDavid]

Yeah....no-one kills their own and other allied troops with such effiency as the Americans.

Sure, why not. Of course, no one covered the story about the British Challanger II tanks killing each other. Also in Iraq.
The World only focus on every American mistake.

Those American troops are going through hell right now. They are facing an enemy unafraid of death, and who are also not afraid to harm American Troops and Iraqi people in any sort of attack. The strikes can come from anywhere, from any angle, from anyside.

They are unwilling to take any chances. If an man starts running at you, you open fire, only later do you get the chance to find out if he was a bad guy, or an innocent, yet the entire world blames the American Troops.

I live next to Fort Lewis, the largest Military Army base in the Northwest. I have seen friends head out, and have seen Iraqi Vets come in. They are twitchy.
A pothole on the road might send them serving in fear.
Road side bombs where stuck in potholes.
A motorcycle coming up quick behind them could start sending fear racing through the bodies.
The insurgents have been known to ride up next to vehicles and chuck grenades through windows.

They are not willing to take a single chance with anyone.
I fucking understand. When all this shit is over, I personally will not do what our parents did during Vietnam, look down on our returning troops.

[Zhukov]

Wow, somebody loves their soldiers!

Don't discount America's Army yet.
Our standard troops are better then any troops in the middle east.
And our elite troops are, dare I say it, better, or at least on par, to the best any other country could throw at us.

"The Vietnamese are a 2nd rate army of shoeless peasants"

[The One and Only...]

Originally Posted by mburbank

My God, you're an idiot. The whole point of going through the UN is to avoid war at all costs. When the UN sanctions a war, you loose the element of surprise, but you have the community of nations at your back. The buildup should encourage your foe to negotiate or capitualte, as it did in Iraq. Unfortunately, that wasn't enough for us.

My God, you're an idiot. The whole point of Bush going through the UN was to make the war more politically palatable and to have a large coalition at his back, thus saving tax dollars on troops and spending for reconstruction. Yet Bush should have been able to tell that he wasn't going to get much UN support that he wouldn't have gotten anyway, and thus could have launched a suprise attack. We might have caught Saddam a lot sooner.

Think about it from the perspective of Bush: we were going to war no matter what.

[Zhukov]

I think I am more inclined to agree with OOA on this one. I think, I'm not sure.

[The One and Only...]

Yeah. If we had to go to war, we should have considered a suprise attack.

I can see why Bush might have wanted to go through the UN first so that political rivals wouldn't beat him to a bloody pulp, but honestly - don't you think that capturing Saddam earlier and a minimalization of casualties would have more than made up for keeping the people out of the loop?

Maybe then, we might have actually found those mysterious WMDs, too. If they existed in the first place.

[Zhukov]

Huh? Me? I said I was thinking about leaning towards agreeing with you.

[The One and Only...]

Actually, my post was more of an afterthought that I added in. It wasn't really directed towards anyone, and I felt like making a new post rather than editing my other one.