So much for "war on terror"

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Because it's I-Mockery.

Originally Posted by Guildencrantz

I don't recall ever hearing german or japanese suicide bombers called cowerds. Is this really any diffaren? In my opinion if you are calling the "terrorist" cowards, then in most cases, you are ignorant of the situation.

It has already been mentioned that these men were often called cowards. Ask a WW II veteran who may have lost friends there, maybe they would echo that very same sentiment.

And once again, they were targeting a military base. They were attempting to take a strategic swipe at our naval capacity, as well as send a message to the U.S. military, that they are capable and willing to hit us when they want to.

Blowing up a wedding party sends what message? "We will totally take out your ring bearer"???

My suggestion is do some reserch for yourself before you buy into the media's crap, and write them off as cowards just because someone in a suit and tie said so.

Find out for for yourself that they are really cowards.

I would LOVE to hear some of your suggestions.

Just because it's on tv dose not make it true.

Please go away.

[Guildencrantz]

Ok fair enough. I didn't really think out the whole WWII suicide bomber comment and deserve a big "your a Dumb ass"

[Guildencrantz]

Do you really want suggestions, or do you want me to go away?

That's not a rhetorical question. I am perfectly willing to do either.(just not at this moment, I feel like shit, and need to go to bed)

I will talk to you tomorrow.

[Rosenstern]

You underestimate his sarcastic nature.

[Big Papa Goat]

Originally Posted by Plato

(Courage is) the preservation of the belief that has been inculcated by the law through education about what sorts of things are to be feared. And by preserving this belief "through anything" I mean preserving it and ot abandoning it because of pains, pleasures, desires or fears.

(Republic 429c-d)
Looking at courage in that way, a suicide bomber who dies for the beliefs he's been indoctrinated in does possess courage. The fact that he kills innocent people instead of conventional targets in a way further demonstrates courage under this view, since the suicide bomber retains only his indoctrinated beliefs on what is to be feared, i.e failure to combat the supposed enemy through whatever means, rather then the normal human 'fears' of killing innocent people or dying.
The fact that the beliefs the suicide bomber holds are insane doesn't change the fact that he courageously retains them in the face of a number of normal human impulses, like self-preservation, sympathy, and rationality.

Originally Posted by sadie

scully said, maybe true faith is a form of insanity. :O

Me, I think thats so right. I'd call insanity a really skewed perception of reality. Someone who has real faith doesn't perceive reality, he perceives something outside of reality, or else it isn't faith.I guess its all a matter of degrees though, and its really just my own view on it.

[ziggytrix]

Originally Posted by KevinTheOmnivore

Blowing up a wedding party sends what message? "We will totally take out your ring bearer"???

Depends on who is at the wedding, I suppose. If it is the son of some general getting married, then you'd have a chance of killing the general too, or at least causing him anguish, which would possibly make him a less capable opponent. Perhaps? I dunno. If it's just some random wedding (which I would doubt, but maybe it is) then they'd still have to convince the bomber that the people at the wedding were Enemies of God or whatever. So again, there is something about the target that makes them think they will achieve some goal. But it's very hard to get into the head of a fanatic, because they are fucking crazy sons of bitches.

[Guildencrantz]

Fucking Crazy maybe, but these two have exemplified the point I am trying to make here. and that is that the bombers believe something that you don't, and in their minds they are not wrong, or cowardly, and you need to come to terms with that and accept it.

You can call them cowards if you want (I personally don’t care), but you should be sure that it is your belief that they are cowards, and not someone else’s.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Perhaps we should distinguish between cowards and cowardly acts.

If believing that you are right and not fearing death makes you brave (the opposite of coward, no?), then perhaps you aren't a coward. I still disagree, but point taken.

However, I think people with common sense and reason can look at someone who intentionally targets innocent people in order to instill fear in the populous as partaking in a cowardly act, no?

And guilden, I'm sorry I wasn't clear. Yes, you can leave now.

[Ant10708]

"He [my husband] took one corner and I took another. There was a wedding in the hotel. There were women and children.

"My husband executed the attack. I tried to detonate and it failed.

"I left. People started running and I started running with them."


The bravery of suicide bombers.

[Ant10708]

Originally Posted by ziggytrix

Depends on who is at the wedding, I suppose.

It was some random wedding. They only killed like three Americans. And just because you convince yourself of something stupid like that everyone at the wedding party in Jordan is an apostate(including the two palestinian diplomats that were killed) it doesn't mean your action was brave. And suicide can look alot more appealing to people than living their current lives so how is suicide an act of bravery? An action isn't an act of bravery just because the person thinks it is. And considering Jordians were chanting for Zarqawi to burn in hell I don't think they believe the suicide bombers to be all that brave either. People should be scared that if it can happen in a police state like Jordan than there is no way we are going to prevent an attack here and should watch who they consider to be brave because that 'brave' man or woman might end up killing your relatives as they ride the train to work.


I also love Guilden being upset that Americans calling the suicide bombers cowards migth be someone else's opinion when the very 'brave' suicide bombers are completly brainwashed and performing the action of some fanatic who isn't 'brave' enough to kill himself.


They also killed the producer of the 'Halloween' movies. They are enemies to the world and classic horror movies!

[ziggytrix]

Originally Posted by KevinTheOmnivore

However, I think people with common sense and reason can look at someone who intentionally targets innocent people in order to instill fear in the populous as partaking in a cowardly act, no?

I'm pretty irrational, but I can agree with that.

[Guildencrantz]

I am not upset I am simply trying to play the devil's advocate here. Yes. they were brainwashed, and to my understanding that is pretty much common knowledge.

as for the question as to whether or not the bombers were cowards in my heart that is still a matter of opinion.

And on that note I will leave you all to your opinions

by the way Kevin The Omnivore you have the makings of a true politician

[MLE]

i think you're mistaking this for the i-friendsallthetime.net message boards.

[Guildencrantz]

I can be confrontational, normally I try not to roll up my beliefs and shove them up other people’s asses, primarily because uninvited anal intrusion is rude.

However you all seem to want a good salty argument. So here it comes (I’ll spare you the lube)

I propose that every thing I say is correct, and any one who disagrees can go to the corner and masturbate.

I hope I piss someone off,
here we go:

The government used the events of 9/11 as an opportunity to go into the Middle East for guess what boys and girls?
That’s right the oil. Once we were there we chased our asses for a while under the guise a hunt for our good friend Osama, once all the stupid people started to loose interest they made the short little waltz to Iraq. So we went in and beat some evil dictator’s ass and took the country.
We now have the oil and the corporations are happy. All the people can now sit their fat asses, and wave their flags because once again democracy has triumphed, and always will over any enemy.
What do we say about the cowardly terrorist: there cowards and that’s it. What the fuck has any one done to stop these cowards?

Coward or not it doesn’t make it ok, but why won’t the government finish its fucking “war on terror” and finish these cowardly cowards off.
Maybe because that was never the intention first place, it was once again the oil, because the government has to keep the corporations happy. And they can get away with that because democracy is a lie and the government is their puppet. And all of this is possible because the majority of this country are fucking idiots and can be easily swayed to believe anything the media says The whole fucking county has been brainwashed just like the cowardly cowards, the only difference is that most Americans are to selfish to blow themselves up, so instead they feel the need to regurgitate the media, governmental, and corporate crap all over forums like this.

[MLE]

Actually, i wasn't proposing that you become confrontational. i was proposing you leave and find i-friendsallthetime.net or some other equivalent.

[Dr. Boogie]

Originally Posted by Guildencrantz

... the only difference is that most Americans are to selfish to blow themselves up...

"Bob?"

"Yes Sheila?"

"Would you blow yourself up for me?"

"Aw, come on, babe. The Sox just won the World Series!"

"Mother was right about you! You are so selfish!!"

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Ahh, I see, it was all about the oil. Thanks for clarifying your incredibly complex and deep theory on the war for me.

[Guildencrantz]

Your welcome.
I'm glad that cleared things up for you.

[Geggy]

you know how guys are capable of willing to do ANYTHING to get laid. and its common for muslims to believe that they wold be given certain numbers of virgins for acting out god's deed by taking others with them in suicide attacks.

by the way, source time. i'm not going to jump around like a retard and say "told you so!" but this article points out some possible conspiracies of some sort. and check the ceilings in the picture...

http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/con...ory.asp?id=274

[kahljorn]

from w hat i understand, the husband made the bombs(or at least decided which bomb the wife was getting). I was thinking, maybe he made her bomb dysfunctional on purpose? That's kind of brave, and not a cowardly act at all. *But I'm sure terrorists everywhere would call it cowardly.

It's funny how different americans perceptions of bravery are. Don't terrorists attack civilians because they hate them and everything they stand for? I don't think terrorists are waging war against our military, they hate our way of life or something. It has nothing to do with war, but an attempt to destroy evil.

[GAsux]

I think all this debate about what's brave or not is pointless semantics. To me the real value of this story is that if in fact the bombers were bred in Iraq, that's a troubling sign. Couple that with indications that the Taliban are receiving training and support from Iraq insurgents as well and now we're talking about validating the argument that the war in Iraq has made the region LESS stable.

Iraq has become to jihadists what Afghanistan was in the 80s.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Originally Posted by GAsux

Iraq has become to jihadists what Afghanistan was in the 80s.

Perhaps, but the big rebel yell from the Left prior to the invasion of Afghanistan was that we created that mess by pulling out, and now we were gonna go and bomb it to fix matters, etc.

So following that comparison, wouldn't it really be like Afghanistan if we leave prematurely??

[kahljorn]

"To me the real value of this story is that if in fact the bombers were bred in Iraq, that's a troubling sign."

Not really.

[GAsux]

Kev,
Im not advocating withdrawl. Just saying that much like Afghanistan, the streets of Iraq provide a valuable training ground.

[Big Papa Goat]

Would it have been less troubling if the suicide bombers came from Syria? Palestine? Oklahoma? I don't get it.
And what do you mean by a training ground for suicide bombers? Are these suicide bombers cutting their teeth on the rough streets of war torn Iraq in preperation for bigger and better things?