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mburbank · #26

and your totally down with sarcasm. thats a great thing for a mysterious little creep to be.

Miss Modular · #27

Quote:

Originally Posted by BombsBurstingInAir

Needing some attention honey? Having a hard time getting a boyfriend? You'll be OK. Just

I bet you're KHAKHA!!!

Anonymous · #28

My money's on Secret.

ranxer · #29

hey Italian..
maybe i shoulda asked you to play some word association..

when i say 'Peace'.. you say what? .. war?

when i say 'Love'.. you say what? .. hate?

why do you think of hatred when you hear about peace supporters? i really dont get it.. why do you say i hate??

i dont hate bush..i think he's a lieing crook that is not intelligent enough to know what he's lieing about, but i save hatred for things that matter more to me.

actually hatred isnt very usefull.. i've pretty much gotten rid of it.. maybe if i stumble onto an attempted murder or rape ya might see some hatred come out at the perpetrator but thats about all i can think of where any hate from me belongs.

ItalianStereotype · #30

i dont hate peace supporters, i hate YOU.

you come here acting like you are a south american rebel waging guerilla war on the government....but you arent, you are a zealot posting on a message board. just get over yourself and present your ideas in a rational manner...but that might be asking too much of you.

ranxer · #31

oh ok, nevermind then.. um, i wont try to hold you to that standard though.

The_Rorschach · #32

That's right kids!

I'm going to the UN to show Dubya he ain't foolin' me!

Want a cookie?

All that beside, someone obviously is fooling you. A war with Iraq carries consequences more vast than you have obviously taken into consideration. The Middle East has been a turbulant region of untenable turmoil for the last hundred years, not merely for its residents, but for the entire world.

What Bush seeks to do is partyl related to oil, yes, but whether he knows it or not, he will also be building a western friendly government - much like the king of Afghanistan - Who, hopefully, will introduce western influences such as wide-scale religous approbation, democratic recognition of the rights of all men (by which I mean humankind) as well as the beginnings of peace and prosperity. Truman was able to do it with Korea, and while he was a better man than Bush could ever be, I hope that in the future one of our elected officials can fulfill the implications which Bush is pushing for.

Miss Modular · #33

Quote:

All that beside, someone obviously is fooling you. A war with Iraq carries consequences more vast than you have obviously taken into consideration.

It's not that. I know perfectly well the damages such a war entails, which is why I want it stopped. I don't any condescending to be told what the consequences are. I am well aware of everything you just said. I'm not stupid.

The_Rorschach · #34

I never assumed you were, however even the most intellegent can be short sighted. Tell me, what do you foresee for the future of the Middle East assuming the United States respects the sovereignty of Iraq and decides to desist in its attempts to alter its political course?

I dislike any action which interferes with a nation governing itself. The only people with the right to overthrow such a state are its own civilians. . .However, I also see needless suffering, pointless wars, and abounding ignorance which needs to be addressed as well and am at a loss for any other way to cure the patient save through his own death.

Miss Modular · #35

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Rorschach

I never assumed you were, however even the most intellegent can be short sighted. Tell me, what do you foresee for the future of the Middle East assuming the United States respects the sovereignty of Iraq and decides to desist in its attempts to alter its political course?

I see Saddam falling on his own. Most dictators eventually get their due (Stalin, Amin, Mussolini et al), and if history serves us correct, so will Saddam. It's not the most complex answer, I know, but that's what I speculate.

mburbank · #36

Rorshach;

Jump back and unbunch your panties. You know what happens when you assume, and your assumptions about miss mod based solely on a single jaunty statement are unwarranted.

Morevoever just as Bush ain't no Truman (and that's damning with faint praise) Afghanistan ain't no Korea. Karzai's chances of surviving daily are slim enough. Much as I might like to see it, the idea of Karzai leading a western style democracy is pie in the sky. With our full support, they can't batten down the hatches in Kahbul, let alone the rest of the country. Even in South Korea, which is your best case scenario, we've maintained a heavy military presence all this time, we've never really left, and even so, we're coming dangerouysly close to square one there.

Plus, I don't think Western style Democracy is our goal at all. Democracy's have an ugly habbit of not doing as they are told. Look at old enemies France and Germany finding coming ground in standing against the US.

The_Rorschach · #37

Mod: I see Saddam falling on his own. Most dictators eventually get their due (Stalin, Amin, Mussolini et al), and if history serves us correct, so will Saddam. It's not the most complex answer, I know, but that's what I speculate.

1991 illustrated exactly what support Saddam had within his own nation, the people have no power there. The United States did not take him out at the time for fear of someone even worse replacing him, the devil you know over the devil you don't. Perhaps I'm simply overbearingly arrogant, but I am afraid that Saddam with reign until outside mitigating factors remove him

Burbie: Jump back and unbunch your panties. You know what happens when you assume, and your assumptions about miss mod based solely on a single jaunty statement are unwarranted.

Then she has my apologies.

Morevoever just as Bush ain't no Truman (and that's damning with faint praise) Afghanistan ain't no Korea. Karzai's chances of surviving daily are slim enough.

Much agreed, but everyday he wakes to find himself alive and whole, he knows the reason why - And that reason will haunt his every action, thought and deed.

Much as I might like to see it, the idea of Karzai leading a western style democracy is pie in the sky.

Karzai? No, he will never see it. Doubtless, neither will his predecessors, and that can be hoped is that they will walk the path towards it, and one distant day they may even arrive. We are not acting for our present, but for our children's future.

Even in South Korea, which is your best case scenario, we've maintained a heavy military presence all this time, we've never really left, and even so, we're coming dangerouysly close to square one there.

Quite the contrary, I believe our current standing with N Korea is mostly illusionary. The military flexing Jung is performing is largely a bargaining tactic. His country is malnourished, lacking in vital natural resources and economically floundering, while to south is the most fiscally vibrant country in Asia. So Korea has made the most of their oppourtunities and now the North is envious. I believe that in the end, a peace might even be brokered between the two resulting in opened borders for trade.

Plus, I don't think Western style Democracy is our goal at all. Democracy's have an ugly habbit of not doing as they are told. Look at old enemies France and Germany finding coming ground in standing against the US.

That is the beauty of democracy, the ability to openly disagree. Where would the United States be without France and Germany forcing us to justify our actions? Your argument is a two sided my friend. While Democracy is not our goal, and thank God it is not, I only hope that one day they might be wise enough to fashion something similar for themselves.

theapportioner · #38

A big reason why I'm going to NYC is to fight the general complacency that exists in America towards what Bush has been doing, especially after 09-11. I don't support the inevitable war for a variety of reasons, but it's hardly the biggest thing that angers me about this administration.

Miss Modular · #39

If we're going after Saddam, then why aren't we going after Cuba, Zimbabwe, and other countries that have dictatorships? What makes Saddam so special, really?

The_Rorschach · #40

Committing genocide against the Kurds, testing chemical and biological agents on his own people, excess taxation, impoverished conditions, standing in open defiance of treaties he himself agreed to, standing in open defiance to previously agreed to UN conditions. . .

Evil Robot · #41

I think we should just deport all the jewish people and stop supporting isreal.

just kidding. I think we should kill muslims and make seat covers for our SUVs out of thier turbans.

ItalianStereotype · #42

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranxer

oh ok, nevermind then.. um, i wont try to hold you to that standard though.

should i try to be more like you?

WE ARE SUPREME FOR GOD HAS BLESSED US. THE BLACK RACE SHOULD BE DESTROYED. EVERY STUDENT SHOULD HAVE A BIBLE IMPLANTED INTO THEIR FOREHEAD AND PEOPLE WHO GET ABORTIONS WILL BE SHOT.

Miss Modular · #43

Quote:

Committing genocide

Zimbabwe is also guilty of this.

In fact, most of the things you listed, one dictatorship or another is guilty of.

ranxer · #44

whatever Italian.. you sound plenty zealous .. and not just in response to me. oh well.. do whatever floats yer boat, makes no difference to me.

this story about Saddam attempting genocide is repeated over and over, but i've never seen any evidence, besides the one sided, un-checked "reports" .. sounds like we are practicing guilty until proven innocent.. the statement "used chemical weapons on his own people" is another often stated but unfounded "report"
correct me if im wrong, but the kurds were an armed resistance not peaceful voters protesting a president.. ok sure he should not have used chem weaps, but that has still not been verified.. even verified, its no reason to drop bombs on the people of iraq.

again im with those that say as investigation and history will show this is not about Saddam, not about terrorism, not about justice, this is about the bush administration seeking power through control of oil.

and after 12 years of sanctions Iraq is not a threat to peace.. the bush administration is the threat to peace.

The_Rorschach · #45

Zimbabwe is also guilty of this.

In fact, most of the things you listed, one dictatorship or another is guilty of.

That is your argument? Well, lets address Zimbabwe. . .Threat against the US, economically or militarilly speaking? Nope. Hussien, yes on both counts. Has Zimbabwe shown any real imperialistic urges, such as overthrowing the rightful ruling of friendly neighbouring countries? Nope. Is Zimbabwe currently refusing to abide by treatise and UN sanctions? Nope.

Iraq is alot more unique than you give it credit for.

Miss Modular · #46

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Rorschach

Zimbabwe is also guilty of this.

In fact, most of the things you listed, one dictatorship or another is guilty of.

That is your argument? Well, lets address Zimbabwe. . .Threat against the US, economically or militarilly speaking? Nope. Hussien, yes on both counts. Has Zimbabwe shown any real imperialistic urges, such as overthrowing the rightful ruling of friendly neighbouring countries? Nope. Is Zimbabwe currently refusing to abide by treatise and UN sanctions? Nope.

Didn't Iraq finally relent themselves to UN inspections? I think to a certain degree, we've allowed Saddam Hussein to become who he is today. There was a time when we supported him and his regime. Why didn't we go after him in the early '80s? What makes him more threatening now?

I think Saddam is a barbarous menace. But I don't think a war is going to solve anything. I think it's just going to create more problems and turn the whole world against us. Once we're done with Iraq, there'll more and more wars. You might not agree, but you're entitled to your opinion.

Quote:

Iraq is alot more unique than you give it credit for.

I think you're exaggerating.

ranxer · #47

how is Saddam a military threat to America?

just because our corporate media says he's the boogey man doesnt mean he is.
GW is lieing like there's no tomorrow and Powell is going along with it.. as you know, many of us dont believe it for a second.

How is Saddam an economic threat to America?

ror: such as overthrowing the rightful ruling of friendly neighbouring countries?

are you talking about Kuwait? haha a Monarchy propped up by the U$?? we set him up on that.. April Glasby gave Saddam the green light to invade by saying "Arab borders are not our concern" to him saying he was going to invade if the despute was not addressed. Saddam had a legal dispute over oil with Kuwait that was ignored by the world court And Kuwait.. Many of us saw it coming.. Saddam in his ignorance did not. I've heard many reports that he doesnt listen much to contrary opinion so it was no suprise that he didnt take caution there, but it was by no means an overthrowing of a rightful ruling of freindly neighbouring countries.

really the only question i have for you ror is why did April Glasby DISAPPEAR after that meeting before the invasion??? gee, could it be that they knew they were setting up to move on Iraq??
HINT: the answer wont come from the corporate mass media