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  #76  
Emu Emu is offline
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Old Oct 7th, 2004, 08:52 PM       
NEXT DEBATE SOON MAN
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  #77  
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Old Oct 7th, 2004, 10:28 PM       
On the 'let me finish' part, I have the video of the debate. He says it after a long pause, so the moderator probably thought he was done or something.
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  #78  
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Old Oct 7th, 2004, 11:16 PM       
LOL. Bush must have had to just reboot the ol' brain.
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Old Oct 7th, 2004, 11:36 PM       
i saw on another message board that there is some sort of stop light thing at the bottom of there mics that let them know when to talk or not, and i guess that his turned red right before he said "let me finnish". damn. something like this would have shut him down for good. ...
:/
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Old Oct 9th, 2004, 03:38 AM       
No, he had plenty of time, but he stopped speaking for a bit, so the moderator probably looked like he was ready to move on.

Now, tonight, he cut the moderator off on at least two seperate occasions and generally made a complete ass of himself, even saying 'Yeah, I hear about those reports. On the internets.' Which had us in tears for a while ;<

Kerry actually made me proud to vote for him tonight with his responses to abortion and religious/moral values.
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Old Oct 9th, 2004, 11:01 AM       
Hopefully, some enterprising young internets person will come up with a blooper reel for the debates...

If they can do this, they could pull that off...
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mburbank~ Yes, okay, fine, I do know what you meant, but why is it not possible for you to get through a paragraph without making all the words cry?

How can someone who obviously thinks so much of their ideas have so little respect for expressing them? How can someone who so yearns to be taken seriously make so little effort?!
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Old Oct 9th, 2004, 11:08 AM       
FACILE.
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mburbank~ Yes, okay, fine, I do know what you meant, but why is it not possible for you to get through a paragraph without making all the words cry?

How can someone who obviously thinks so much of their ideas have so little respect for expressing them? How can someone who so yearns to be taken seriously make so little effort?!
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  #83  
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Old Oct 9th, 2004, 11:08 AM       
Kerry was dead-on when he told that anti-abortion lady about how you can't legislate your religious beliefs (same for the embryonic stem cell research lady). You could tell that wasn't the answer she was looking for and they both would have started crying if Kerry had talked for any longer.

What annoyed me the most was Bush's statement about importing drugs from Canada: "I want to make sure they cure you not kill you."

WTF? He's making it sound like Canadian drugs are dangerous, when they are the exact same pills that are sold in the U.S. Canada either a) imports the drugs from the U.S. to begin with or b) they are made by Canadian factories controlled by the drug company that owns the patent on the drug in question.

When you walk into any pharmacy here, you see jars with big brand name labels on them, not a bunch of non-descript containers with no-name stickers on them.
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Old Oct 9th, 2004, 11:21 AM       
Yeah, but how can we be SURE we can trust you shafty Canadians?
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Old Oct 9th, 2004, 11:26 AM       
Neither guy seemed to be able to truthfully say why they opposed/ supported about half the positions questioned.

If Dubya has actually held off for 3.8 years on importing Canadian drugs because he's worried that they might turn out to be made in Thailand instead, I can whistle "O Canada" out of my ass.

The argument he attempted he screwed up. If he wanted to scare folks off the idea he could have said that half the drugs circulating in the third world are blackmarket fakes, many useless but benign but a scary amount stuff like drain cleaner labeled as AIDS meds. If he could have drawn the line between that and reimportation, he might have gained some points, albeit on a lie... but he got halfway there and quit. That just made him look stupid. ER.

Reimportation does nothing to solve the high COST of drugs. Canadian drugs are the same damn drugs we have here. You guys refuse to pay full price, like many countries with nationalized healthcare, which drives the price up down here. Enterprising folks already mail-order their prescriptions from Canada. The debate here is whether the Government will re-import. That's just retarded. If we want to fix the price of drugs for Americans, we can do that just like any other country.

Do we have candidates that can explain this? No. I'm not even sure if they understand the very basics of what they're debating half the time.
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mburbank~ Yes, okay, fine, I do know what you meant, but why is it not possible for you to get through a paragraph without making all the words cry?

How can someone who obviously thinks so much of their ideas have so little respect for expressing them? How can someone who so yearns to be taken seriously make so little effort?!
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Old Oct 9th, 2004, 12:17 PM       
Wanna buy some wood?
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mburbank~ Yes, okay, fine, I do know what you meant, but why is it not possible for you to get through a paragraph without making all the words cry?

How can someone who obviously thinks so much of their ideas have so little respect for expressing them? How can someone who so yearns to be taken seriously make so little effort?!
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  #87  
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Old Oct 9th, 2004, 01:04 PM       
Factcheck.org says he does indeed own part of a timber company, and he made exactly the 80 some odd dollars off it Kerry said he did.

Kerry should have batted the environment question out of the park. I was really disapointed by that.

He also should have nailed W every single time he slipped back into saying terrorists could have gotten WMD and forced him to say 'we thought...' each time, becaue they couldn't have.

I did however like the way Kerry talked right to W on several occasions.

And he should have nailed W that he wouldn't admit to ANY mistakes let alone the three the questioner asked for. He should have said "You can honestly look at the state Iraq is in right now and not think of a single error in judgement that you as commander in chief want to take responsibility for?" THAT's immaturity, it's a character flaw dangerous in a head of state.
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Old Oct 9th, 2004, 01:35 PM       
Well, he hinted at his regret for hiring his Secretary of Treasury... Probably Wes Clark as well...

All those doubting Thomii, y'know...

I agree. Kerry should have date-raped Dubya. Instead, he left himself open for more attacks from the many men behind the curtain. If he'd have taken advantage of the opportunity he had to verbally beat Bush's ass live on TV in front of everyone, he wouldn't have had to worry about the spin.

If I'm running for President, I think I could dedicate enough time to winning to make that happen. Practice makes perfect.

Perfect is obviously not the goal here...
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mburbank~ Yes, okay, fine, I do know what you meant, but why is it not possible for you to get through a paragraph without making all the words cry?

How can someone who obviously thinks so much of their ideas have so little respect for expressing them? How can someone who so yearns to be taken seriously make so little effort?!
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Old Oct 9th, 2004, 04:32 PM       
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Originally Posted by AChimp
What annoyed me the most was Bush's statement about importing drugs from Canada: "I want to make sure they cure you not kill you."

WTF? He's making it sound like Canadian drugs are dangerous, when they are the exact same pills that are sold in the U.S. Canada either a) imports the drugs from the U.S. to begin with or b) they are made by Canadian factories controlled by the drug company that owns the patent on the drug in question.

When you walk into any pharmacy here, you see jars with big brand name labels on them, not a bunch of non-descript containers with no-name stickers on them.
- The only reason you're saying this, Chimp is that you know damn well that Manitoba is Canada's capital for online pharmacies. It's time for a reality check, who's really going to trust their healthcare needs to a bunch of Eskimos and lumberjacks?

[center:3697434e76]- States of Illinois & Wisconsin's I-SaveRx.net -[/center:3697434e76]
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  #90  
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Old Oct 9th, 2004, 04:51 PM       
I loved the last question for Bush: Give three examples of mistakes you've made during your presidency.

He wouldn't give an example.
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Old Oct 9th, 2004, 05:23 PM       
its good to know that a future president could believe in science.
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Old Oct 9th, 2004, 07:08 PM       
Guys, we do have to make sure Canadian drugs are safe - Them crazy canucks'll take anything!
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Old Oct 9th, 2004, 08:59 PM       
Like coating pills with thick mollasses so it stick to our throats.
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Old Oct 10th, 2004, 12:18 AM       
Fuck, did somebody save that ebay auction :<
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Old Oct 10th, 2004, 01:38 AM       
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Originally Posted by mburbank
Kerry should have batted the environment question out of the park. I was really disapointed by that.

He also should have nailed W every single time he slipped back into saying terrorists could have gotten WMD and forced him to say 'we thought...' each time, becaue they couldn't have.
Yeah. He should have nailed Bush several times but didn't. He should have nailed him on Supreme Court Justice picks and what type of judges Bush would pick given four more years and how that would dramatically change the balance of the Supreme Court, which is a much larger issue than is getting played in my opinon. He touched it, but didn't explain it or elaborate why this issue is important, which the majority of voters know little about. He should have nailed him on the Senate votes that Bush likes to use against him. Maybe explain why Bush threatened to veto the "87 billion dollars" proposal that Bush claims was all about supporting the troops, if 1.3 billion of additional funding went to provide medical benefits. Or how the 98 or whatever votes to raise taxes that Bush accuses, how a majority of those would actually NOT have increased taxes and others would have only increased the taxes ont he upper class. He should have nailed him for avoiding the question at the end where he was asked to admit a mistake. So many other times myself or some one else in the pub was ready to throw a drink at the TV when Bush got away with saying something we knew could be better defended. But that's the problem with the debates. They are just 90 minutes of attempts to get off the best sound-bite or reactionary facial expression so the media can replay that to the public over and over and out of context and undefended.

I think Kerry wants to run off Bush's popularity too much. Like when you hang around the cool guys in hopes that people will see you the same way. it's the same thing Gore did, hoping that he can be close enough to Bush that people will say "well, he's a lot like Bush and I like that...but he seems smarter so I'll vote for him." It's a bad strategy but it's the way he ran too much of his campaign and until these debates has seemed to me to be unable to tell the public, and most importantly his base, why he is diametrically opposed to Bush.

One more to go. I really think Kerry needs another landslide victory in this one like he had in the first, where he opened the door and caught Bush off guard, in order to pull it off.
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Old Oct 10th, 2004, 11:19 AM       
William Saleton, from Slate and a big Kerry fan, says Kerry blew it. I agree.

Quote:
...Gibson turned to Kerry. The pitch was hanging there, waiting to be smacked into the upper deck. All Kerry had to do was walk up to the questioner and say, "You just asked the president to name three mistakes. He couldn't name one. He can't correct his mistakes, because he can't see them, even when his own weapons inspector puts it on the front page of the newspaper. You can't change this president. You can only replace him."

Here's what Kerry said instead: "I believe the president made a huge mistake, a catastrophic mistake, not to live up to his own standard, which was [to] build a true global coalition, give the inspectors time to finish their job, and go through the U.N. process to its end and go to war as a last resort." Blah, blah, elaboration, prepositional phrase, caveat, whimper, end.

What's the point of taking notes if you don't use what the other guy says? Is Kerry really listening? Or is he just trying to look like a man who takes notes?
I keep getting in trouble for weighting these debates to favor Bush/ Cheney, but the way I see it, Kerry/ Edwards has to do much more than appear to be a little bit better than the incumbents. They will have to destroy Bush in order to prevail in this election. Even though I've said this was going to go to Bush months ago, I still believe Bush could be beaten. Not by John Kerry's CAMPAIGN. John Kerry as a candidate probably could've pulled it off, but his campaign has consistently done the exact wrong thing at nearly every turn.

These debates are just more of the same for Kerry. Yes, he's clearly better at saying stuff than Bush. It's the stuff he's saying that's failing him. To put the finest point possible on it, I'd wager that Hillary would win this election handily had she ran. I bet she knows this and is kicking herself. America is this{ }close to handing over the WOT to Kerry, the anti-war activist, and Edwards, the pretty noob. With a properly run campaign, a hot-fudge sundae with a margarita as a running mate could beat Bush.

You think I'm exaggerating, but imagine the last question of the debate without Kerry...

"Please give three instances in which you came to realize you had made a wrong decision, and what you did to correct it."

"...the big question about whether we should have removed somebody in Iraq, I'll stand by those decisions, because I think they're right," Bush says. "On the tax cut, it's a big decision. I did the right decision..."

Eventually, Bush sits down without admitting one damn mistake. Charlie Gibson turns to the opposition candidate, a hot-fudge sundae that's about half melted now from the harsh lighting. Taking a minute to compose his thoughts, the hot-fudge sundae squints at Bush incredulously. The look on the hot-fudge sundae's face says it all: "You CAN'T admit you did anything wrong!"

The view goes split screen. On the left, is Bush, looking less and less self-satisfied and smug by the second as the hot-fudge sundae leaves Bush's amazing self-inflicted injury to hang there, answered with nothing more than a hard, knowing glare. Bush begins to sweat. The hot-fudge sundae casually drips a little melted whipped cream on the cushion...

Bush looks down, suddenly realizing what he's done. He places his head in his hands. Charlie Gibson shakes his head slowly. "Ladies and Gentlemen," he says softly, "It seems the challenger has no response... has no need to offer any response, as the president's words are more damning than anything anyone could say in rebuttal... it seems appropriate now to call this debate over, and to thank you all for watching and participating in what has been an inarguably historic moment in American politics..."
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mburbank~ Yes, okay, fine, I do know what you meant, but why is it not possible for you to get through a paragraph without making all the words cry?

How can someone who obviously thinks so much of their ideas have so little respect for expressing them? How can someone who so yearns to be taken seriously make so little effort?!
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  #97  
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Old Oct 10th, 2004, 11:36 AM       
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keep getting in trouble for weighting these debates to favor Bush/ Cheney, but the way I see it, Kerry/ Edwards has to do much more than appear to be a little bit better than the incumbents. They will have to destroy Bush in order to prevail in this election.
They should use Haliburton more. Use social class. Accuse Cheney and his peers of blood profit.
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Old Oct 10th, 2004, 02:09 PM       
[quote="conus"]
Quote:
They should use Haliburton more. Use social class. Accuse Cheney and his peers of blood profit.
You do realize that the Old Left is all but dead, right?
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Old Oct 10th, 2004, 02:46 PM       
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You do realize that the Old Left is all but dead, right?
What does that mean? And what does it have to do with the Vice President of the United States being a war profiteer? I do understand that Eugene Debs is dead, but doesn't change the facts. Isaac Newton is dead too, but the laws of gravity still apply.
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Old Oct 10th, 2004, 02:54 PM       
That's not necessarily true... The OLD left is alive and well. They're called Neo-Conservatives. Clinton & Compassionate Conservativism has pretty much ripped the guts out of what was left of the Democratic Party, which was the 60's hangers on to the unrealistic idea that government programs solve problems efficiently. What was left of the dignity of the idealistic party is now decorated with a heaping pile of shit, courtesy of John Kerry's campaign for POTUS in which he's run as a Republican.

I think the two parties have, in many ways, switched places on the left-right scale, at least temporarily. I don't see us being too far away from something similar to the UK's three-party, Labour dominated system. 4 more years of Bush will cause a split in the Republican party, and the Dems, taking a cue from Kerry's defeat and the likely loss of even more power in the Legislative as well as Judicial branches, will swing back left and take a more activist (and HONEST) stance.

This may be wishful thinking, but I predict a nice little boost to the LP ranks from the soon to be completely disenfranchised fiscally conservative right, and a re-formed DNC that actually supports it's Screamin' Deans, Kachooniks and Darth Naders.
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mburbank~ Yes, okay, fine, I do know what you meant, but why is it not possible for you to get through a paragraph without making all the words cry?

How can someone who obviously thinks so much of their ideas have so little respect for expressing them? How can someone who so yearns to be taken seriously make so little effort?!
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