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View Poll Results: Who would you currently choose as your president?
George W. Bush 4 21.05%
Howard Dean 5 26.32%
Wesley Clark 0 0%
John Kerry 2 10.53%
Dick Gephardt 1 5.26%
Joe Lieberman 0 0%
John Edwards 0 0%
Al Sharpton 5 26.32%
Carol Moseley Braun 0 0%
Dennis Kucinich 2 10.53%
Voters: 19. You may not vote on this poll

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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Oct 19th, 2003, 09:05 PM        NEW! Presidential race '04
Okay, it's back, and better than ever! Here's an updated selection. I hope we can discuss our choices here, explain them, debate the race, and update each other on what's going on in the race. I've included Dubya as an option this time, too.

EDIT: If you'd vote for another person, or are currently undecided, talk about that, too.
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Old Oct 19th, 2003, 09:15 PM       
Willie says fuck you, Kevin.

Oh, I voted for W. You americans are stupid.
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Old Oct 19th, 2003, 09:25 PM       
AL GORE ISN'T ON THERE

I wanna vote for Al Sharpton just because having a black president would be awesome.
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Old Oct 19th, 2003, 09:27 PM       
What sort of guy is this Dick Gerphardt? Is he a democrat? His name is kickass.
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Old Oct 19th, 2003, 09:48 PM       
None of them sound very good, and I won't support the LP candidate if I don't even know who he is. If I had to pick someone... I'd write in a vote for myself.
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Old Oct 19th, 2003, 10:54 PM       
I accidently clicked on Al Sharpton.
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Old Oct 20th, 2003, 12:58 AM       
I really hate you all, yet I can't help but admire the aesthetic beauty to the responses that this has thus far gotten.

Willie?
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Old Oct 20th, 2003, 01:48 AM       
Weeping, creeping Christ. . .DENNIS KUCINICH? I mean, aside from my political disastifaction with the man, he's ugly. At least W looks enough like a monkey to let his lack of attractiveness slide, but this guy looks like Alfalfa all grown up.

And what is with the heavy liberal bias here? I mean, from Lieberman to Ms. Moseley Braun we have ever leftist representative here but only one from the right, and that one doesn't even well represent the right might I add.

Anyway, I think it would be interesting if Edwards got it. He would be the first Congressman to go from the Senate to the Presidency since Kennedy. . .Speaking of which, he looks a bit like Bobby Kennedy doesn't he, or is it just me?

Anyway, in the primaries I'll be voting for Alan Keyes. When it comes time to vote for the President, I'll opt for whomever is least likely to make things worse. I voted Nader last time, maybe he'll do me favour and run again, although I think he lost his chance to ride on the tides of popularity in the last election.
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Old Oct 20th, 2003, 02:20 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Rorschach
And what is with the heavy liberal bias here? I mean, from Lieberman to Ms. Moseley Braun we have ever leftist representative here but only one from the right, and that one doesn't even well represent the right might I add.


Those are the men and woman on the poll because one of them will without a doubt be our president in 2004. We unfortunately live in an electoral system that only allows two factions to flourish. Bush isn't there because he's a Republican, or because he represents "the Right," but because he's the incumbent. The other folks are from the only other party that matters in America at this time, period.

So please Ror, get off the "Liberal bias" nonsense. Do you see Nader or whoever the Socialist Party USA just nominated up there....?
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Old Oct 20th, 2003, 02:41 AM       
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/20/po...partner=GOOGLE

October 20, 2003

2 Top Democrats Will Not Contest Iowa's Caucuses
By ADAM NAGOURNEY

WASHINGTON, Oct. 19 — Two prominent Democratic presidential candidates, Gen. Wesley K. Clark and Senator Joseph I. Lieberman of Connecticut, have decided to bypass Iowa's presidential caucuses, angering some party leaders there and signaling what could be a very different nomination battle next year.

Mr. Lieberman's advisers said on Sunday that they would pull out all but one of his 17 staff members in Iowa and send them to states considered more receptive to his appeal, like Arizona. General Clark's aides said he would maintain a minimal presence in the state, which has the nation's earliest presidential selection contest. Last week, the general hired the former Iowa coordinator for Senator Bob Graham of Florida, who quit the race two weeks ago, and dispatched her to other states.

General Clark's advisers said they concluded last week that his late-starting candidacy had left him unable to assemble the intricate organization needed to win the Iowa race, which puts a premium on drawing voters to some 2,000 precinct caucuses. Most of the state's experienced organizers have signed with other candidates.

"What we'll do is what I call the General MacArthur strategy," a senior Clark adviser said. "General MacArthur was very successful in World War II because he skipped over the Japanese strongholds, where they were more organized, and instead picked islands that were favorable or neutral terrain. Which means we would choose not to focus resources on Iowa and instead focus them on New Hampshire and on Feb. 3," when there are Democratic contests in seven states.

Mr. Lieberman's advisers said his moderate stances on issues that are big in Iowa now, including his strong support for the war in Iraq and support of treaties lowering trade barriers, were problematic in a contest that attracts many liberal and blue-collar voters. His decision marks something of a retreat by the man who was his party's vice-presidential candidate in 2000; Mr. Lieberman has spent 15 days campaigning in Iowa this year.

"I think it's pretty safe to say that there's recognition inside the campaign that Iowa is not now, and will never be, Lieberman country," one adviser said.

Another adviser said on Sunday, "There's no victory in being fourth in Iowa."

The candidates' decisions will hardly erase Iowa from the Democratic political map in 2004. With less than three months until the caucuses, the first real test of a candidate's strength in the voters' eyes, four other Democratic contenders are in an unusually frenzied competition.

Still, the absence of General Clark and Mr. Lieberman could plant an asterisk alongside the results of the caucuses on Jan. 19. Even Iowa Democratic leaders, eager to maximize their quadrennial exercise of influence, say it could diminish the state's role in choosing the a nominee.

That could prove to be a complication for Representative Richard A. Gephardt of Missouri and Howard Dean, the former Vermont governor, who are hoping for an unencumbered victory in Iowa as an anchor for their nomination strategies.

Mr. Lieberman and General Clark's decisions followed speculation in Iowa about whether they would seriously compete in the caucuses. Several Democrats took note of their absence from a debate sponsored by the AARP in Des Moines on Wednesday, and Mr. Lieberman skipped the state during a high-profile campaign tour last week.

The decisions drew a sharp reaction from state party leaders and from other Democratic candidates. Several predicted that that General Clark and Mr. Lieberman would come to regret their decisions, noting that no one who skipped the caucuses has ever won the Democratic nomination.

"That would be very unwise," said Gordon Fischer, the Democratic state chairman. "That strategy has not worked before: Al Gore tried it in 1988 and John McCain tried in 2000. It didn't work for either of them, and I predict it will not work again."

Thomas Henderson, the Democratic leader in Polk County, shook his head vigorously when asked if he thought General Clark and Mr. Lieberman were making a wise decision.

"No, no, no, no," Mr. Henderson said. "The day after Iowa will be huge news. And those guys will be out of the picture."

Mr. Gephardt said in an interview that he did not see how someone could win the nomination without competing in Iowa. "It's very hard to start bypassing states," Mr. Gephardt said. "We have a very competitive race going on as you know in Iowa."

Dr. Dean's campaign manager, Joe Trippi, said: "I think it's a very dangerous strategy to skip the place. And if you guess wrong by not competing in Iowa, there will never be a way to put that back in the bottle. There really isn't any room to recover this year."

There is another risk for Mr. Lieberman and General Clark. Iowa is certain to be one of the most contested states in the general election, given Mr. Gore's 4,100-vote victory in 2000. Democrats said Mr. Clark and Mr. Lieberman could appear to be snubbing Iowa, a perception that President Bush's advisers might use to try to hold down Democratic turnout, should either of the truants be the party's nominee.

The effort by the Democrats who are competing in Iowa could hardly be more intense. Mr. Gephardt, Dr. Dean, Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts, Senator John Edwards of North Carolina and Representative Dennis J. Kucinich of Ohio, have spent a total of 182 days in Iowa this year.

The major candidates have headquarters up and running in Des Moines well into the night, and the restaurants and bars along Grand Avenue are bustling with staff members arguing their candidates' cases. At the Polk County Democratic Party dinner in Des Moines on Friday night, as Dr. Dean was shouting in the background about his foreign policy views, John Norris, who is Mr. Kerry's state director, walked over to Jeani Murray, who is running Dr. Dean's campaign, to throw an elbow at his colleague.

"I take it your polls are showing he has some problems on foreign policy," he said with a grin. Ms. Murray smiled but kept her eyes on her candidate.

The contest has become a fight between the traditional organizational efforts that have historically triumphed in Iowa — the approach adopted by Mr. Gephardt and Mr. Kerry — and the wave of sheer enthusiasm generated by supporters of Dr. Dean. After a tentative start, Mr. Edwards is also mounting a spirited campaign, angling for a surprise showing in this shrinking field.

Though polling in Iowa is notoriously unreliable, state party leaders said Mr. Gephardt and Dr. Dean were the top contenders, followed by Mr. Kerry and Mr. Edwards.

Some Democrats held out the possibility that General Clark or Mr. Lieberman could be engaging in an elaborate feint, setting themselves up for a last-minute entrance and surprise showing in January.

But aides to the two men, even while acknowledging their decision was made largely out of necessity, said the caucuses would prove to be less influential this election year.

For one thing, they said, the large number of candidates still in the race means caucuses will be less decisive in winnowing the field. In addition, the Democratic calendar would appear to give candidates other ways to get onto the field, and Mr. Lieberman and General Clark are looking to Feb. 3 to make their mark. The scattered geography of that day's voting will put a premium on television advertising, not on the time-consuming barnstorming that is required in Iowa and New Hampshire.

"Look, General Clark deeply respects and appreciates the role Iowa plays in the nominating process," said Matt Bennett, his communications director. "But we have to recognize that caucuses are organizational efforts and those other candidates have spent years — and, in at least one case, decades — working the caucusgoers."

Conversations with Iowa voters over the past week suggest the general might have had a hard time competing there. Several expressed admiration for him, but also skepticism about his political experience and ideological credentials.

"I do not want a general as president," said Dianna Weber, 66, a retired teacher in Mason City. "There, I just said it."

Mr. Gephardt's advisers said he could not survive a loss in Iowa, because he is from a neighboring state and because he won the caucuses in 1988, the first time he ran for president. Mr. Gephardt has followed a traditional path, campaigning intensely through rural areas while assembling a network of labor supporters to deliver his vote.

He has repeatedly attacked his opponents for supporting the kind of free trade treaties that unions blame for an exodus of jobs to other nations.

"They are really pushing labor unions, and labor unions are responding," said Jeff Link, a longtime Democratic organizer here. "And it's easy to underestimate labor."

But Mr. Gephardt is vulnerable for his support of the Iraq war. Dr. Dean has ridden that issue to great success, bringing so many new Democrats into the process that his campaign is planning to set up caucus schools to educate them on the fast-paced negotiations and horse-trading expected on caucus night from the more experienced backers of Mr. Gephardt and Mr. Kerry.
###
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Old Oct 20th, 2003, 03:23 AM       
I notice a total lack of John McCain. I am severely disapponted.
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Old Oct 20th, 2003, 01:06 PM       
I also noticed that Galactus wasn't on there.
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Old Oct 20th, 2003, 01:43 PM       
Yeah but Kev, only one of them is going to get the Democratic nomination. Mosley Braun, Sharpton, Kerry and Edwards can be safely counted out of that line up, as well as pretty much everyone save Dean and Clark.
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Old Oct 20th, 2003, 03:24 PM       
I'm voting for whoever the Democrats put up just to try and keep the Republicans for winning. If I really hate the Democratic candidate, I'm writing in Pauly Shore because that vote will have about the same effect on the election as voting for any third party.
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Old Oct 20th, 2003, 04:20 PM       
Just don't vote for the guy who wants an international minimum wage. Or the rabid AA-supporting black chick.
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Old Oct 20th, 2003, 06:02 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perndog
I'm voting for whoever the Democrats put up just to try and keep the Republicans for winning.
that's the worst reason for voting I've ever seen. thanks for doing your fair share to fuck up America.
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Old Oct 20th, 2003, 07:13 PM       
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perndog
I'm voting for whoever the Democrats put up just to try and keep the Republicans for winning.
that's the worst reason for voting I've ever seen. thanks for doing your fair share to fuck up America.
YOU DID IT FIRST
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Old Oct 20th, 2003, 07:16 PM       
In my eyes, it's electing Republicans that fucks up America. By not voting for the candidate most likely to beat the Republicans, which has to be a Democrat since I don't yet believe a third party has a chance of winning the presidency (I do my research for other elections, just not this one), I do my part to keep the Republicans out and therefore I actively contribute to NOT fucking up America. And if, for some weird reason, the Republican is better than the Democrat, I don't vote, because at that point we're fucked no matter what. So piss off.
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Old Oct 20th, 2003, 07:25 PM       
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Originally Posted by The_Rorschach
Yeah but Kev, only one of them is going to get the Democratic nomination. Mosley Braun, Sharpton, Kerry and Edwards can be safely counted out of that line up, as well as pretty much everyone save Dean and Clark.
Every single one of those Democratics will probably be on the primary ballots,m providing they don't drop out prior to that. They are still an option for Democrats.

The question was who would you vote for. Not who will win, who's leading in the polls, but who out of the two more relevant factions would you support.
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Old Oct 20th, 2003, 08:58 PM       
You're question was not who will you vote for in the primaries, but who will you vote for Presidentially. You are weaseling now boyo, pick primaries or Presidential, but state one or the other.
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Old Oct 20th, 2003, 10:02 PM       
Hmm, I think if I choose Howard Dean as my candidate in a primary, and I'm a Democrat, I'm probably voting for him in the general election.

There's no weaseling. One of those MEN (I said it), will be our president. It's incredibly naive, for instance, to assume that John Edwards and John Kerry are out of it. We're a year away, we have a long way to go. It's won't be the Green, it won't be the Libertarian, it won't be the Natural Law candidate, nor will it be the Psycho anti-tax tax payers who love God Party's guy.

It will be a Democrat or a Republican. For me to make a poll and selectively say "well hey, let's just put Bush and Dean here, cut to the chase!" would be subjective, naive, and jumping to conclusions. Truth is, it could be Dean, it could be Kerry, it could be Clark, but it could also be one of the only two southern REAL politicians from the south, Gephardt or Edwards (particularly in light of Clark and Lieberman throwing it in in Iowa). Excluding Kucinich, Braun, and whoever else because their polls are low would just show plain ignorance of past races. Clinton, to name one, polled low at this point, too.
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Old Oct 21st, 2003, 09:01 AM       
CHEWBACCA FOR PRESIDENT!

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Old Oct 21st, 2003, 09:39 AM       
I'll probably vote for Bush.

My question is this: Why the hell would you vote for a Democant? What positions do they feel strongly about, excluding hating Dubya and wanting to tax rich people more? Howard Dean might as well join the Socalist party. Hell, if you were a terrorist cell member, would YOU be scared of President Dean's tough stance on terror?

A vote for a Democant running in this presidental election is more or less voting for terrorist attacks and a fucked up economy. The Dem canidates have no direction, no purpose, and no vision for the country except to disagree with Bush on the war on terror and to tax "rich" people.
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Old Oct 21st, 2003, 09:45 AM       
Cell members are in prison Vince! Nothing to be afraid of!
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Old Oct 21st, 2003, 10:17 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perndog
In my eyes, it's electing Republicans that fucks up America. By not voting for the candidate most likely to beat the Republicans, which has to be a Democrat since I don't yet believe a third party has a chance of winning the presidency (I do my research for other elections, just not this one), I do my part to keep the Republicans out and therefore I actively contribute to NOT fucking up America. And if, for some weird reason, the Republican is better than the Democrat, I don't vote, because at that point we're fucked no matter what. So piss off.
whatever jackass, the fact is that you are still taking part in petty partisanship. you aren't interested in what is best for the country, your just buying into the hype. fucking sheep.
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