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Sethomas · #1

If they haven't had autonomy anytime in the past 2500 years, why the fuck would they want it so much now that everyone is jumping on the European unification train (pardon the irony)? I was just living in Madrid less than a month ago, and I plan on passing through Basque territory this weekend on a jaunt to Barcelona. This had better not ruin my mission to buy absinthe.

Terrorists are jerks.

ItalianStereotype · #2

aren't the Basques in the region where Navarra used to be?

Zhukov · #3

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/h...pe/3500452.stm

ETA has denied responsibility. And organisations don't normally carry out bombings like this with no obvious benefit only to say "wasn't us". ED: ETA has not issued a response at all...

I'm just glad to see the 'war on terror' is working

Al-Qaeda maybe???

As the ETA's political wing pointed out, these bombings are probably "Arab resistence". Their goal is different than that of the ETA. They are trying to tell Spainish people "is being in Iraq worth turning your country into a combat zone."

I don't know.

Mongolia, Albania, Lithuania - Watch out.

theapportioner · #4

Yeah there's so much conflicting evidence I don't know what to think. It is eerie though...

And I certainly don't like the sound of this "winds of black death" strike on the USA.

Brandon · #5

March 11th? That's a creepy coincidence.

On one of the newscasts, probably CNN, there was a brief statement from a Muslim cleric in London, who refused to believe that al Qaeda was involved because they "do not kill innocent civilians."

Where the fuck has this guy been for the past couple of years?

kahljorn · #6

Americans aren't innocent, silly goose. We are fifth dimensional demonic beings looking to send the world into a void of nothingness.

SupaFlea543 · #7

Man that was pretty funny, because what you did there was exhagerate and then start making up goofy but still believable things.

Zhukov · #8

The CCOO and UGT trade unions called for a 15-minute stoppage at factories and workplaces. I think ALL of Spain is in mourning.

I still don't think anyone can be sure whether this is Al Qaeda or ETA, or, more likely, extremist elements in or around ETA, or a splinter group. Whether theapportioner was being sarcastic or not, there is still alot of conflicting evidence.

The police have found a van with detonators and a tape with Koranic verses. A letter claiming responsibility was received by Al-Quds Al-Arabi paper in London.

ETA usually waits days or weeks before taking responsibility for its attacks, to disrupt any calmness that may have settled. I was mistaken in my earlier post when I stated that ETA said something like "wasn't us", I heard this on the news but it turns out that they haven't actually issued a statement. It is surprising that ETA has not issued any claim of innocence, esspecialy after the massive spontaneous demonstrations of the Basque people protesting against the bombings.

Indiscriminate bombings of civilians have not been typical of ETAs methods. They are, however, completely in tune with the methods of Al Qaeda. The most that ETA have ever killed is 21, and this was when the authorities didn't heed their warning (ETA issue warnings so people don't get hurt, bless.)

The explosive used in yesterday's blasts was titadine, a compressed dynamite that ETA has used in the past. More explosives were found in the possession of an alleged ETA member, who was said to have intended to put them aboard a train.

The reason why the PP government immediately blamed ETA for this is clear, though. They wanted to create a mood of hysteria in which reactionary legislation could be rushed through. I am just not sure what that reactionary legislation is at the moment. He also stirs up anti Basque feeling "We will defeat them... We will succeed in finishing off the terrorist band, with the strength of the rule of law and with the unity of all Spaniards." I dissagree with you Sethomas when you says that all Basque people are 'assholes', or terrorists. Not even all of ETA are terrorists.

Aznar has ruled out negotiations with ETA. He has banned Batasuna. Now he says: "There are no negotiations possible or desirable with these assassins that have so often sown death through all of Spain."

I am leaning towards Al Qaeda myself, although no one can be sure. If so, in addition to the perpitrators of this crime there are others who are responsible: George W. Bush, Tony Blair and Jose Maria Aznar. These are the men who, in launching the so called "war on terror" have stirred up instability throughout the Middle East and acted as the most effective recruiting agents for terrorism.

The latest atrocity demonstrates very clearly the complete failure of the "war on terror".

Brandon · #9

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zhukov

I am leaning towards Al Qaeda myself, although no one can be sure. If so, in addition to the perpitrators of this crime there are others who are responsible: George W. Bush, Tony Blair and Jose Maria Aznar. These are the men who, in launching the so called "war on terror" have stirred up instability throughout the Middle East and acted as the most effective recruiting agents for terrorism.

Yes, because nothing must deter the far left from its focus on who the real villain is: the big, evil United States.

Zhukov · #10

Yes Brandon, because it is so far fetched to say that if it is Al Qaeda, then without G.W and Blair attacking Iraq, it wouldn't have happenend.

Al Qaeda have never realy been big in mainland Europe, and I am sure they would have had better things to do than attack Spain.

I never said it was the "big, evil" USA, I mentioned three names. I have never said that the USA is evil, so don't try to make me seem like some kind of crazed nut job.

thebiggameover · #11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zhukov

The latest atrocity demonstrates very clearly the complete failure of the "war on terror".

EDIT: the image came out like crap when i posted it. here is the link to what i tried to post...

http://mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/images/war.008.gif

Jeanette X · #12

It doesn't make sense. If it was Al-Queda, why would they target Spain in particular?

Emu · #13

To fool us. That's why.

Zhukov · #14

Quote:

If it was Al-Queda, why would they target Spain in particular?

Spain joined the UK/US in Iraq. Al Qaeda may have hated Saddam, but they want the Iraqi people on their side.

Quote:

They are trying to tell Spainish people "is being in Iraq worth turning your country into a combat zone."

Another mistake on my behalf: It wasn't ETA's "political wing" that blamed "the Arab resistance", it was leader of the banned Basque freedom party Batasuna, Arnaldo Otegi, who also denied Basque involvement.

"The Basque pro-independence left wishes to express the most absolute rejection of what happened today in Madrid. Indiscriminate actions against civilians, against workers... are absolutely and firmly rejected."

davinxtk · #15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zhukov

...but they want the Iraqi people on their side.

In case you hadn't noticed, they still are.

It wasn't Al-Qaeda, though.
Unless the republicans say it is, and then it's time for another war, right?

mesobe · #16

hell yeah! the spanish people NEED the americans to protect them!! quick! BOMB SPAIN NOW!!

Emu · #17

Who's it gonna be next? Pakistan? Iran? And then when North Korea bombs us, will we attack Saudi Arabia?

Anonymouse · #18

None of you no so sit tight, and whatever "information" you recieve is government and media filtered.

Brandon · #19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zhukov

Yes Brandon, because it is so far fetched to say that if it is Al Qaeda, then without G.W and Blair attacking Iraq, it wouldn't have happenend.

Al Qaeda have never realy been big in mainland Europe, and I am sure they would have had better things to do than attack Spain.

I never said it was the "big, evil" USA, I mentioned three names. I have never said that the USA is evil, so don't try to make me seem like some kind of crazed nut job.

Well honestly, Zhukov, I'm getting a little tired of hearing the same lines from the extreme left every time something related to terrorism happens:

"YOU KNOW, IF IT HADN'T BEEN FOR THE FASCISM OF BUSH AND BLAIR, THIS SHIT WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED."

I personally didn't agree with the Iraq war. I also don't agree with a foreign policy based on military bullying. But despite my feelings on those issues, I still don't believe that it's fair to place Bush and Blair in the same category as terrorists or hold the two of them "responsible" for these kinds of atrocities. The liberal rhetoric is getting old; just as old as its conservative counterpart.

El Blanco · #20

AB, don't feed the Zhukov. These aren't his thoughts. He is just going to spit out rhetoric and try and spin it off into a thousand directions so he won't have to actually argue his point. And a handful of cheerleaders wil jump at any chance to say how much better they are than Americans.

But, why Spain if it is AQ? Doesn't Spain have a top notch counter terror team and national police force? And they certainly weren't the most prolific members of the coalition.

Why not Athens or Prague ? If you want to make a real statement, why not London? Not that I wish this upon anyone, I am just trying to see the strategy here.

As for calling the War on Terror a flop, this is not going to be quick and clean. The WoT is a flop when people see these attacks and let the fear run their lives.

My prayers go to the victims and families and hopefully we can catch those responsible to make sure no one else has to go through this hell.

Abcdxxxx · #21

ETA and Al Qaeda were reported to be working together on a multi-bombing attack on the EU around two years back. Could be this was the result. Seems like there was Al Qaeda type support at the very least.

Might not be a bad time to get out your "poetry of suicide bombing" text book.

Zhukov · #22

Quote:

Well honestly, Zhukov, I'm getting a little tired of hearing the same lines from the extreme left every time something related to terrorism happens:

"YOU KNOW, IF IT HADN'T BEEN FOR THE FASCISM OF BUSH AND BLAIR, THIS SHIT WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED."

You are overeacting, it's not like you turn on the TV and you are bombarded with communist run news programs.

If you do hear the 'same old thing' regarding terrorism, then it is not from me. I kept my mouth mostly shut during the attacks in Istanbul. I don't post things about terror is Nepal, do I? You are trying to make me look stupid with things that I didn't say, again. I don't throw around the term fascist when describing Bush and co, there are people on this board that relate things to 'fascist' alot, but not me. There is no reason to go ape shit at me.

Surely I have the right to post my thoughts or theories here and see what people think, other than "I'm tired of hearing this." Could you fathom for a second that maybe it was Al Qaeda that was responsible? If so, why was Spain a target?

Quote:

I still don't believe that it's fair to place Bush and Blair in the same category as terrorists or hold the two of them "responsible" for these kinds of atrocities.

I hold the the US/UK/ESP trio responsible for making Spain a target for Al Qaeda. Osama asked for an attack against Spain in his last communication, didn't he? I hold Al Qaeda or ETA responsible for the atrocities in Madrid.

I am leaning towards thinking that it was not ETA but Al Qaeda. Of course, I do not know, and it would be stupid at this point to say I did know for sure. Nor can I say that there is only a small chance that ETA did it, there is a very real chance. But if it was Al Qaeda, then I can be sure in saying that Spain has been turned into a target for Islamic terrorists by the actions of Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar. He dragged Spain into Iraq against the peoples wishes, and they seem to have paid the unfair price. Individual terrorism gives the excuse for state terrorism and vice versa. Tony Blair immediately used this to justify the "war against terror". Soon George Bush will add his voice to the chorus. Aznar will do the same.

I didn't focus on ETA because I am sure nobody wants to hear my thoughts on terrorism and it's relations to bourgeois state and independent class policy in Spain. I am even more sure than no one wants to hear my views on why ETA does what it does, both terrorism and Basque nationalism. I thought that maybe people might actualy read how Spain is linked to Iraq, and Iraq is recently linked to Al Qaeda, and now Al Qaeda could be linked to Spain. It doesn't take any knowledge of hitorical materialism to see how they add up.

Quote:

AB, don't feed the Zhukov. These aren't his thoughts. He is just going to spit out rhetoric and try and spin it off into a thousand directions so he won't have to actually argue his point.

Of course these are my thoughts. Where are yours? Which particular things that I have said are rhetoric? How have I spun them out in a thousand different ways?

What do you want me to say? "The war on terror is lost if we give in to the terrorists! I hope they catch those who are responsible! I am praying to the families!"

Quote:

ETA and Al Qaeda were reported to be working together on a multi-bombing attack on the EU around two years back. Could be this was the result.

That sounds like it could be correct.

Brandon · #23

Well I'm sorry if it sounded like I was attacking you in particular, Zhukov. You just happened to be the first person here to swoop down and point a finger at Bush and Blair.

At any rate, al Qaeda might not be responsible after all:
http://www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=IA16604

Quote:

The text of this statement includes linguistic usages and concepts that are incompatible with or alien to authentic Al-Qa'ida writings by Osama bin Laden, Dr. Ayman Al-Zawahiri, and others. The following are some examples, in order of appearance:

1. Following the Qur'an verses is the title "The Trains of Death Operation." This is uncommon in bin Laden's writing. Also, it is noteworthy that the phrase "Trains of Death" is not reiterated in the text as the name of the operation.
2. "Settling old accounts," both as a linguistic form and as a concept, is alien to authentic Al-Qa'ida writings.
3. The use of the concept of "agents" is taken from the vocabulary of nationalist ideology, while bin Laden and his followers relate to their enemies primarily as infidels.
4. The phrase "but you did not get the message" is not one used by bin Laden, who does not cast his operations in the light of "messages," rather, as acts in and of themselves to further the goals of Al-Qa'ida for the sake of Allah. Thus, it follows that:
5. The concept of conditionality, as in the statement "And if you renounce [fighting us], we too will stop fighting you" is not a bin Laden concept.
6. The term "The Tyrant of the Generation" was used in the previous statement of alleged responsibility by the Abu Hafs Al-Masri Brigades, for the August 2003 U.S. blackout – which was caused by a large-scale technical failure.
7. In authentic Al-Qa'ida writings, the September 11 attacks are not referred to as "events" but as "raids" (the early Islamic term ghazwah).
8. The announcement of an operation to begin at "4515 S.B." or reference to an operation that is "90% completed" is alien to bin Laden's scholarly Islamist style.

Thus, this statement does not seem to be an authentic Al-Qa'ida document.

Who knows?