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Old Aug 24th, 2006, 10:00 AM        Recession in 2007 imminent?
Recession will be nasty and deep, economist says
Housing is in a free fall and is pulling the economy down with it, Roubini says

By Rex Nutting, MarketWatch
Last Update: 4:59 PM ET Aug 23, 2006


WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) - The United States is headed for a recession that will be "much nastier, deeper and more protracted" than the 2001 recession, says Nouriel Roubini, president of Roubini Global Economics.

Writing on his blog on Wednesday, Roubini repeated his call that the U.S. would be in a recession in 2007, arguing that the collapse of housing will bring down the rest of the economy. Read more.
Roubini wrote after the National Association of Realtors reported Wednesday that sales of existing homes fell 4.1% in July, while inventories soared to a 13-year high and prices flattened out year-over-year.

"This is the biggest housing slump in the last four or five decades: every housing indictor is in free fall, including now housing prices," Roubini said. The decline in investment in the housing sector will exceed the drop in investment when the Nasdaq collapsed in 2000 and 2001, he said.

And the impact of the bursting of the bubble will affect every household in America, not just the few people who owned significant shares in technology companies during the dot-com boom, he said. Prices are falling even in the Midwest, which never experienced a bubble, "a scary signal" of how much pain the drop in household wealth could cause.

Roubini is a professor of economics at New York University and was a senior economist in the White House and the Treasury Department in the late 1990s. His firm focuses largely on global macroeconomics.

While many economists share Roubini's concerns about the imbalances in the global economy and in the U.S. housing sector, he stands nearly alone in predicting a recession next year.
Fed watcher Tim Duy called Roubini the "the current archetypical Eeyore," responding to a comment Dallas Fed President Richard Fisher made last week in referring to economic pessimists as "Eeyores" (after Winnie the Pooh's grumpy friend).

"By itself this slump is enough to trigger a U.S. recession: its effects on real residential investment, wealth and consumption, and employment will be more severe than the tech bust that triggered the 2001 recession," Roubini said.

Housing has accounted, directly and indirectly, for about 30% of employment growth during this expansion, including employment in retail and in manufacturing producing consumer goods, he said.
In the past year, consumers spent about $200 billion of the money they pulled out of their home equity, he estimated. Already, sales of consumer durables such as cars and furniture have weakened.
"As the housing sector slumps, the job and income and wage losses in housing will percolate throughout the economy," Roubini said.

Consumers also face high energy prices, higher interest rates, stagnant wages, negative savings and high debt levels, he noted.
"This is the tipping point for the U.S. consumer and the effects will be ugly," he said. "Expect the great recession of 2007 to be much nastier, deeper and more protracted than the 2001 recession."
He also sees many of the same warning signs in other economies, including some in Europe.

Rex Nutting is Washington bureau chief of MarketWatch.

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?dist=newsfinder&siteid=mktw&guid={E18E9 5AF-DBFF-4EE4-ACF7-530A3CD714D3}&symbol=
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Old Aug 24th, 2006, 10:05 AM       
oops i didnt see the "credit" thread. oh well.
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Old Aug 24th, 2006, 12:12 PM       
You know, from all the talks of "Economy" on this board I started to think that maybe economy had absolutely nothing to do with the consumer. I'm so confused about economy at this point, why is so much of it based on what the consumer does and what the consumer has? I had started to think that wasn't important at all :O

Also why is it that whoever makes economical decisions in our government always makes drastic decisions? Does it occur to them that when their drastic decision making is over with, there's going to be some drastic effects? DRASTIC EFFECTS FROM DRASTIC CAUSES? NO! It almost makes you think the people who make these decisions purposely make the stupidest decision possible.

Does this mean that house prices are finally going to drop?
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Old Aug 24th, 2006, 12:58 PM       
Interest rates are way low, inflation is way low, it's the best possible time to buy a house, it's the exact opposite of the Carter administration when you cou;dn't buy a house or start a business do to the inflation.

People will bitch one way or another, but right now is a time of some pretty rare oppertunity we won't be seeing again.
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Old Aug 24th, 2006, 02:07 PM       
Really? In california houses are ridiculously expensive right now, 400,000 for a house you normally wouldn't pay 250,000 for. I don't think interest rates make up for that

Are houses cheap where you guys live right now?
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Old Aug 24th, 2006, 02:36 PM       
Pre-war vintage Baseball cards are up. That's a sign of a bad economy, when people start putting money into soft investments like collectibles.

The problem is people stretched themselves and bought what wasn't within their means on these 100% financed deals while the interest rates were low. The markets not bursting, it's just settling back into a healthier market. Unfortunately, the sky is falling attitude will actually put us back into a recession as they're predicting. The only way to fight it is to spend money, keep the economy going.

Here's what's going on in SF - you can't buy anything liveable for under $500,000, and that's still going to be more along the lines of a condo, or serious fixer upper. There's a ton of inventory on the market, because sellers were motivated to sell while housing prices were sky high, but where it used to be standard to take 6 months or even a year to sell a house, this market is accustomed to being snatched off the market in a few weeks. So now and you see a lot of reductions. The reductions are like 25 grand. Even the worst market in the US has only dropped 11%. As a result, you're seeing less overbids (people would come in above asking price in bidding wars) because buyers are less desperate to buy something, but you do still see them. You're not going to suddenly be able to buy your dream home with 100% financing, but the average home buyer over the past 4 years probably shouldn't have been buying anything to begin with anyway.
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Old Aug 24th, 2006, 04:58 PM       
Believe it or not, but there is a site for Lawncutting guy's and it's mostly American's. This site is a really good indicaton of what your economy is doing. Just the same as here when guy's are complaining that there are way too many "scrubs" (guy's that have lost there jobs) and people are under bidding for jobs, you can see that your economy is faltering. Cost of fuel and parts being very expensive to buy or have shipped is another indication that there are no fair deals anymore, business is greedy and making a profit quick instead of slow and steady is long gone.
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Old Aug 25th, 2006, 12:52 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by kahljorn
Really? In california houses are ridiculously expensive right now, 400,000 for a house you normally wouldn't pay 250,000 for. I don't think interest rates make up for that

Are houses cheap where you guys live right now?
$25,000 gets you two bedroom in misouri any day of the week.

When the interest goes up you californians are REALLY gonna get it in the housing market.

I think people buying collectibles isnt a sign of investment, but rather a sign that people have money enought o spare (or are to stupid to budget, it's the second one in missouri)
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Old Aug 25th, 2006, 01:20 PM       
I'm hoping when the interest goes up the housing prices go down. i just read an article about how home buying is supposed to decrease whereas the rental market is supposed to increase. We use rentals right now so that could be bad, but if house prices dropped enough I'd probably buy a home.

I don't think having a low interest rate makes up for buying a house 100,000 dollars more than it's worth, but my calculations could be off ;O I guess it's good for peoople who already have them, though.

25,000, seriously? That's in missouri, though, right now we're considering moving to desolate northern california. The houses are just a little bit cheaper there than they are here.
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Old Aug 25th, 2006, 01:41 PM       
If you can't afford a house in N. California right now, I wouldn't count on being able to afford one in a year or two either. Even once the market drops, the difference in your monthly house payments spaced out over the terms of the loan, wouldn't be drastically lower.

As for things like, putting money in collectible investments - you would think that's a sign of a healthy economy that somebody could spend fifty grand on a stamp, but historically it's been the other way around. Collectibles didn't do well when the economy was good. People had their money tied up in real investments, like tech stocks.
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Old Aug 25th, 2006, 02:09 PM       
That's true but I'll at least have more money for a down payment which can drastically reduce the monthly pament, and I'm hoping the houses will drop at least 20 grand, or at least into the affordable range. I want to move to humboldt which is a relatively desolate area, most of the cities only have like 15,000 people in them. Usually the less people that live in/move into a place the more likely it'll be cheaper.
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Old Aug 25th, 2006, 02:15 PM       
One more thing about the current housing market...

There will be a lot of new buyers like Kahl who couldn't buy before, and will decide now is a good time to buy. They'll be stuck at the lower end of the market, but they'll help take out some of the glut of inventory....and likely stimulate the economy again. Like I said, in the old days a bad market would mean you'd take a year to sell your house, where today it means you have to wait 3 months. Same goes for the reductions. You won't see more then $50,000 knocked off a price, and that's going to be a fire sale.

In San Francisco a small home starts in the sixes. The suburbs sell for a premium, unless they're ghetto.

Can you tell I was raised in a Real Estate office?
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Old Aug 25th, 2006, 05:05 PM       
Kind of :O

So when do you think the best time to buy would be, abc? You have anymore real estate information to share?
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Old Aug 25th, 2006, 05:24 PM       
It's a great time to buy. Low interest rates (your parents probably had a mortgage with 18% interest just to compare) and lots of inventory. If you find a house you like that you can qualify for, you won't have to worry about a bidding war. Stuff is still going over asking price in some cases, but they won't laugh at you if you make a decent offer (as opposed to a few years ago when there would be 8 offers all over asking price, no joke). Anyway, yeah if you find a house you can afford, in an area you like, or know is up and coming, then it's always great time to buy. Best to ignore the real estate predictions and judge by what you see when you hit the market. Oh, and find a good agent who's been around the business longer then say 4 years. The new agents don't know what it's like doing business when the market wasn't hot, so they're the ones in a panic.
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Old Aug 25th, 2006, 06:03 PM       
Alright, thanks alot.
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