Post-Post-Modernism

[Miss Modular]

Will somebody explain this for me, please? I understand that post-modernism relates to the following (from here:

abstraction
Reactionary & Nostalgic
Progressive
Schizophrenic
Indeterminancy
Discontinuity
Pastiche
Contextual
Social & Technological Realism
Escapism
Pluralism
Overproduction of artifacts & inflation of theory (like Modernism)

Also, examples of Post-Post-Modernism would be good, too.

[The_Rorschach]

Post-Modernism, as I understand, has four distinct dimensions - Xenophobia, Schizophrenia, Escapism and Materialism. It is sort of a social juxtoposition which sets a tone for lifestyles rather than interaction between individuals. Many of the theories I have heard touching upon the question of what will arise after Post-Modernism revolve around tenants of Reconstruction and Authoritarianism.

I don't really understand what needs to be explained, but if you will clarify, I'll be happy to lend whatever I can. It was a topic we touched on often in political and sociological discussions during my classes last semester.

[Miss Modular]

Well, thank you for clearing that up for me.

Basically, I'm trying to figure out what this is supposed to be saying.

[Abcdxxxx]

In non-theory terms, he's just saying that we're all products of mass media, and pop art, so when we draw from the more heady aspects of past art movments with our current wave of cynical, self awareness, we're creating something that needs it's own definition. Then he attempts to tackle that on his own, and he's in over his head, describing some "fuck shit up" cause you can name check some cool shit juvenile vision of "new", "avant" or even "pop" as it relates to a bunch of movements he doesn't seem to have much grasp on.

I'm guessing you're just trying to make heads or tails out of his concept itself right? Kinda hard to pay much credibility to someone who puts Ministry, and The Breeders into a conceptual link with the popular cultural effects of someone like Lenny Bruce. It's more about what personally turns this guy on, and what's on his book shelf, then anything. He's attempting to define a movement that isn't interested in defining itself under his perscribed Avant Pop dream team banner. Even if there was some secret unification between Jello Biafra, Kim Gordon, and John S. Hall from King Missile (blech!), I doubt they want some guy who adopted the last name "Amerika" to label them.

Post-Post Modern is like when people say Post-Post Punk. Even when you use it seriously, there has to be a hint of bullshit, winking, and sneering about it. It's genre terminology that's meaningless beyond magazines, and theory books once you learn the history of modern culture itself.

[The_Rorschach]

All he was missing was the early antics of Iggy Pop -when his band was mostly shite and hype- and GG Allin.

[Abcdxxxx]

Lipstick Traces has ruined pop theory for a generation.

I'd bet Mr. Amerika just never got over the flavor of the months from the 6 months he spent living with 5 roomates in the East Village during 1993.

[theapportioner]

Never heard post-postmodernism used before. I regard postmodernism as anti-rationalist, anti-ontological, schizo, discursive, nihilistic, cultural relativistic, identity confused. Lyotard wrote a little piece on it, but I haven't read it yet. Of course it is a vague term that gets thrown around alot, and so it has some overlap with postcolonialism, deconstruction, poststructuralism, etc.

[Abcdxxxx]

It's great to define terminology by obscuring the definition with additional terminology. In fact, it's pretty post-post modern of you.

[theapportioner]

The 'definition' is hardly clear to begin with.

"In fact, it's pretty post-post modern of you."

Um, hardly.

[The_Rorschach]

.

I like my definition better. . .But I am curious CLA, where does nihilism enter in. As I understand it, the word carries a sense of lethal indifference, barely short of catotonistic copescetism. If that were the case, any other descrrptors in conjection it would be void yes?

[Brandon]

Originally Posted by The_Rorschach

.

I like my definition better. . .But I am curious CLA, where does nihilism enter in. As I understand it, the word carries a sense of lethal indifference, barely short of catotonistic copescetism. If that were the case, any other descrrptors in conjection it would be void yes?

Modernism was essentially a rejection of the rational, the "objective," and traditional ways of making art. It focused on a more subjective, personal artistic style, spurning the old conventions. It seemed to have been linked with the existential/absurdist worldview in that man's existence is, by nature, highly subjective, and a foolish struggle to find meaning and unity in a meaningless, indifferent, and largely chaotic universe.

Postmodernism is similar, although instead of treating the chaos as something to lament, it revels in it. One could say that postmodernism is nihilistic in that sense--since it actively promotes chaos and meaninglessness.

Don't quote me on any of this--I'm just winging it based on what I remember from my modern literature courses.

[Mockery]

Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx

and John S. Hall from King Missile (blech!)

Tool.

[theapportioner]

But I am curious CLA, where does nihilism enter in. As I understand it, the word carries a sense of lethal indifference, barely short of catotonistic copescetism. If that were the case, any other descrrptors in conjection it would be void yes?

Well, I don't quite mean nihilism as indifference, but you are right in one sense - a postmodernist idea is that definitions are fluid and have no fixed center (as opposed to solid, anchored definitions), hence the paradox of defining postmodernism, and why it is not quite right to use descriptors like anti-ontological etc. to define it.

One who I might call "post-postmodernist" is Slavoj Zizek. One of his big criticisms of postmodernism is that indeed, it is politically impotent. I think it might be fair to say that he sees an "indifferent" attitude in postmodern thinking. Interesting guy.

[The_Rorschach]

You give me too much credit, my frame of reference was much more limited really

I never understood art, nor do I care for it. Art, as it has been revealed to me, is comprised of useless pieces of twisted metal, smatterings of assorted paints against canvas and nonsensical dispays erected as to elicit emotive reactions.

When I approach Modernism, Post Modernism, and That Which Is To Come, it is purely from a societal perspective. Each generation has its own distinct presence and clarion call. Consdering, for instance, the slang of one generation to the next, and how the intonation sounds stilted when it is utilized by those outside of the sect which birthed it. I mean, doesn't it strike you as silly and pathetic when late-twenty to early thirty individuals attempt to use terminology like "bling bling?" I refuse to use such. . .Ah, but I disgress.

Thank you for your response CLA, it is, as per usual, quite helpful.