Are Lucifer and Satan the same?

[Methuselah]

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/pentagram.html

At the bottom of the site it says this.

"There is no Biblical authority to claims that Lucifer and Satan are names for the same being.
In Revelation, Jesus referred to himself as the bright and morning star (Rev 22:16). In 1263 Pope Clement V commissioned the Franciscan monk, Roger Bacon, to investigate apparent problems arising from this translation. Bacon discovered papers by Jerome where, on his deathbed, the latter recanted the Latin Vulgate translation due to errors caused by haste. Jerome particularly singled out the Isaian translations. Bacon's report that "Lucifer" was the Messiah and not the devil earned him incarceration until he recanted."

And it also says that Lucifer could be the Messiah. As for myself I think that Lucifer and Satan are two different things as for Lucifer being the Messiah that is hard to say but I think it is just as likely as Jesus Christ coming back.
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[El Blanco]

I'm lazy, tired, in pain, and doped up, so I don't have a single link right now to back me up.


Satan= Adversary, literally. Its from a Semtic word for "advesary". According to some Biblical scholars I've talked to, Satan isn't the devil/lucifer. He's another creature God created to play the role of Temptor (the guy who tried to mess with Jesus during his fast). They describe it more as a force of nature than an actual being with a cogniscience and all.

Lucifer= the Devil. The Light Bearer. The most beautiful of all the angels. Pride got the best of him.....we know the story.

One guy I know was trying to convince me Jesus is actually St Michael the Archangel. Of course, he's my buddy and all, but he tends to talk out his ass, so I didn't listen to close.

[Sethomas]

Isn't that a tenent of Mormonism? That Jesus was really Michael?

[El Blanco]

The guy who told me this is a Seven Day Adventist, but, he never seems to have a clear set of beliefs when it comes to that sort of thing, so he could have easily been talking about Mormonism.

[AChimp]

Everyone knows that Cthulhu is in charge of Hell.

[ArrowX]

He'll squash you good.

Ecept you take him out with a Thompson SMG in Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the earth (For Xbox and PC) :Fuckin, eh

[AChimp]

It's sad when you try to translate video games into real life. My brother started referring to cars by what they were called in GTA until I kicked his ass.

Someone should beat you up.

[ArrowX]

I'm referring to a game that hasn't even been released yet
And I rarely ever connect video games to real life.

I've laready been beaten up.

[kahljorn]

Jesus is john the baptist.

[Sethomas]

That's a dumb thing to say. They were contemporaneous cousins, how could Jesus be Himself and His cousin at the same time? Besides, John the Baptist was supposed to be the reincarnation (though orthodox theologians will NEVER use that term) of one of the patriarchs, I believe Elijah. The one that was taken up to the sky in a fiery chariot.

[kahljorn]

Gemetria of the new testament.

[Sethomas]

"Gematria" of the new testament is just called "numerology" because IT'S NOT WRITTEN IN HEBREW. It seems like that'd be an easy factoid to remember. And I'm not going to take the time to compare numerlogical values of different declensions of the greek names of Jesus and John since it's sufficient to say that any equalities therein would just be metaphysical consequence of their being related.

Like the classic example in Gematria, "Yahweh" is "love", you can't use them interchangably lest you incur the funny contradiction of Love destroying Sodom and Gemorrah then turning Lot's wife into a pilar of salt.

[kahljorn]

Greek numbers have gemetria behind them, too. Alpha is one, omega is 800. ISOPSEPHIA.

"Metaphysical Conequence"

Anybody who studies metaphysics knows, "There are no coincidences"

[Helm]

Gemetria? More like gaymetria, !

Seriously guys, I'm greek, and half of this shit sounds really rediculous. Why don't you fight over something more serious that freakin' numerology?

[kahljorn]

Jesus was also President hoover, and don't you forget it.

He was also some guy who sung songs in Japan.

[kahljorn]

Helm... isospsephia.

[Helm]

Naw, it was right the first time, just really stupid.

[kahljorn]

Just because you are greek doesn't mean you are the predominant model for greek knowledge. The fact that you've never heard of it would seem to indicate that much.

[Helm]

-Are you sure? -What if I am? -No you're not! -Yes! -No! -Yes! -No! -I am smart! I demand respect! -FUKC YUO I DRESS UP LIKE A GIRL! -POTATOES! -SWAMPS ARE COOL!! -MY ROD IS ATHRUST!!!

Now that we've exhausted that argument, do you have something you'd like us to discuss, perhaps?

[Perndog]

It's all Greek to me.

Oh, and I agree completely.

Signing off.

[kahljorn]

You mean something I'm not merely saying to stir up someone's emotional lingerie? sure!

In revelations I think there are a few " Tips " to recognizing the antichrist. I think they point at jesus because of their content. The one I find most important is that we will, "Call him our savior until too late".
Besides, wasn't revelations supposively an account of when Jesus had risen from the grave?

I can't remember the rest, playing the Where's Waldo version of religion isn't exactly exciting.

[kahljorn]

here's something on lucifer i had Bookmarked:

http://www.aboutthelambsbookoflife.net/pages/918816/

[Helm]

Well revelations is really the best bit of the bible (or the best bit not in the bible, according to who you ask) for me. Taken literally, it's pure crap, but as fatalistic poetry, it can't be beaten.

Personally, I don''t give a fuck who the antichrist was or is or will be.

[kahljorn]

What if it's you? Would you pass up the opperrtunity to destroy the world?

[Helm]

Yeah, I'd probably be a very boring Satan.