The Bride is a horrible character.

[James]

I'm watching Kill Bill Vol. 1 again, and I realized something; The Bride is a cunt.

The movies are set up to be revenge films. The Bride is left for dead, only to go into a coma, wake up from said coma, and kill everyone responsible for her situation. Now that would be all good and fine, and it IS all good and fine for some of the moments in the films. But in other moments, it just doesn't work. She's so blinded by a desire for "revenge," that she actually ends up becoming a villain herself, as opposed to being the hero or antihero.

Let's look at the facts; After finding out she was pregnant, Beatrix led the man she loved (and loved her) to believe she was dead. She put Bill through hell, and Bill wanted revenge. Bill deserved revenge. Maybe killing was a bit excessive, but she should have expected that for the kind of man he was, the kind of woman she was, and what she did to him.

And you know what? If Bill had told her to kill someone else that did that to him, she'd have done it without thinking twice. Pot calling the kettle black. The others were doing exactly what she'd have done. But if THEY had managed to stay alive and come back for revenge, she'd probably have bitched and moaned about them not deserving revenge. Even Budd admitted she deserved her revenge, but I doubt she'd have thought the same in his position.

So she wakes up, and immediately decides to kill everyone. One of which (the first we see) is Vernita Green. Now, here's the thing with her; She is no longer part of Bill's assassination squad. She has a family, a new name, and a new life. In other words, she has everything The Bride was trying to have, only she didn't run away from Bill. And Beatrix was simply playing the role that Vernita did 4 years earlier. There's no justification, and no revenge. She was just a jealous cunt who killed Vernita for hypocritical reasons.

The Bride's revenge is based on being a hypocrite and a dumb bitch. She has very little validation in doing what she did, to the point that you HATE her for killing people who you find yourself far more sympathetic to. A few people weren't "reformed," like Elle and O-Ren, so killing them had some justification, in that she was still killing those who were "bad." But just flat-out killing them for what they did to her was flawed. Spoiled little bitch.

[Rongi]

the bride killed vernita green there because it was completely necessary. vernita pulled a gun out on her and right then and there it was do or die.

also, she didnt kill elle

[James]

The Bride showed up at her house with the intent of fighting and killing her. Her daughter showed up, so they stopped. Then they set up a time and place to fight to the death. Vernita pulled a gun on her in defense of her life and her daughter's. Perfectly valid on her part.

And no, she didn't kill Elle. But she did leave her for dead. And she didn't kill Budd either, but she had all intentions of killing him.

She's just a bitch.

[xenosoul]

The bride deserved her revenge period. At that time she also thought that they killed her baby.

[N00bKill3R]

I understand where you're coming from James, she probably deserved her revenge against Bill but the others... I mean they were just doing their job, the same job that she did. If Bill had been with one of the other girls instead of Beatrix, she would have went through the assasination with no problem... shes just a bitch with big ugly feet

[ziggytrix]

Though I agree with the rest of your assessment, how is she not an antihero?

[thebiggameover]

i dare you to say that to the brides face james!

but really she thought her kid was dead. right up to the end. and she didnt wnat the kid to grow up in that kinda place. she did what ever bill wanted and didnt give a fuck till she got knocked up. then she had something to give a fuck about. and then bill and the others took that away from her. she just wanted pay back. and im sure she would expect the same thing if she was the one doing the baby killing. i dont think she would have bitched that they "didnt deserve it"...

[headasplodeslol]

Id just like to point out that kill bill is the worst movie ever made. but those japanese chicks are hot

[Yggdrasill]

Thanks for pointing that out, I was in denial. Which Japanese chicks, The 5,6,7,8's?

Every movie with Japanese people in it makes me fear them. Why are they so powerful and athletic? No offense to any ninja's on the forum of course, so keep that beheading to yourself please, I want to live!

[eggyolk]

ill let it slide this time but next time you are mine

[Mockery]

Uh hello?

"I'm a bad person..."

"No you're not... you're my favorite person. But sometimes you can be a real cunt..."

[El Blanco]

Did the Bride ever make herself out to be moral or good or anything?

No. Not once. She never said anything about some type of morality you are bitching about.

And besides, not only did they almost kill her, it was obvious they were going to try and finish the job.

Why was it wrong to kill Vernita Green? Because she had a child? That didn't stop her from almost killing the Bride. Besides, the Bride made it clear she wasn't going to go after the girl.

It was a revenge tale. Plain and simple.

[James]

I'm just saying, there is no reason to care about the character She's not sympathetic at all (once you find out who she was and what she did). And in a movie about revenge, you should at least care if she actually gets that revenge, but I didn't. It was a foretold conclusion that she would get it, but you don't give a shit. You're not watching the movies, waiting for the moment she actually kills Bill. You're just watching for the OMG VIOLENCE~! and Tarantino's quirky sense of direction and writing.

I cared more about her enemies than I did about her, and seeing them die or left to die just made me hate her more. But she was painted in the light of a vengeful hero, which she's not. If the story was about her being the villain of the films, it'd have made more sense. But no, we get Mommy Hero Cunt, who has a hissyfit and has to kill everyone for her own mistakes.

I liked the films (the second a lot more than the first) for what they were, but The Bride is still a character that is very poorly done.

[Ninjavenom]

For once i actually completely agree with you there, jimmy-boy. She was about as 2-d as they get, but like you said, that doesn't make the movies less fun.

[El Blanco]

Originally Posted by James

I'm just saying, there is no reason to care about the character She's not sympathetic at all (once you find out who she was and what she did). And in a movie about revenge, you should at least care if she actually gets that revenge, but I didn't.

It was her against the world. Underdog tale. I liked her. She hada goal and not a goddamned thing was stopping her.

It was a foretold conclusion that she would get it, but you don't give a shit.

Have you ever seen an action movie? You know Luke Skywalker is going to blow up the Death Star, John McClain is going to beat the terrorists, and Connor McLeod is going to kill the Kurgan. Does that stop you from liking them?

You're not watching the movies, waiting for the moment she actually kills Bill.

You say that now because it was such an anti-climactic moment.

You're just watching for the OMG VIOLENCE~! and Tarantino's quirky sense of direction and writing.

Well, thats what he does best. And the music.

[quote]I cared more about her enemies than I did about her, and seeing them die or left to die just made me hate her more.[/qyuote]

Action movies need great villains. But it doesn't make me hate the hero.

But she was painted in the light of a vengeful hero, which she's not.

Not a hero, but the antagonist. she's the Man with No Name.

If the story was about her being the villain of the films, it'd have made more sense. But no, we get Mommy Hero Cunt, who has a hissyfit and has to kill everyone for her own mistakes.

Her own mistakes? Who fucking raided who's wedding? Who tried to kill who in her coma?

Vernita Green and Buddy left? They reformed? THAT OBVIOUSLY DOESN'T BUY YOU A TICKET OUT!

I liked the films (the second a lot more than the first)

Further proof you have no taste in movies.

for what they were, but The Bride is still a character that is very poorly done.

Because she doesn't perfectly line up with your pure of heart, virginal white vanilla idea of what a hero should be?

[James]

Jesus Christ.

I'm not saying it was bad that I knew how the film would end. I'm saying that the movie didn't keep me interested in seeing how it would end. I wasn't "pumped up" to see the endgame, because I didn't care about her revenge at all.

And aside from the horrible out-of-place part with Esteban, and the convenient plot points (which are a seemingly deliberate homage to the films this movie is based on, so I forgive that), I felt Vol. 2 was just a much better film. The characters were better fleshed out, and the story actually seemed to take the foreground. Vol. 1 was less about plot, and more about violence and action. Which again, I know is an homage to the films the movie was made for, but that doesn't mean I HAVE to like it. Vol. 2 just had more substance, making it feel more modern and well-done.

And I don't even know where to begin with "Because she doesn't perfectly line up with your pure of heart, virginal white vanilla idea of what a hero should be?" bullshit you're pulling out. So I'll just call you an idiot and go to bed.

[Bell E. Laffs]

I likethe fact it was just a movie, and when it was over I could state my opinion on wheater i liked it or not and not go into character analysis.

[ABSeNCe]

Vol. 1 definitely had more violence than plot, but that was the main attraction for general audiences. Think of the first film as an introduction to the films. It draws in the audience, but at the same time leaves them in the dark about a lot. Then once you get to volume 2, it becomes a much greater film with the substance and plot that you faggots won't stop bitching about

[Supafly345]

These movies are a satire I hope you know. Like Flash Gordon.

[DJ Potatoe]

This movie sucked ass. I love to agree with james when he's wrong as a joke, but seriously..he's totally right here. I even wrote a slammin' good funk song about how fuckin' stupid Quentin tarantino is. And it's true to boot. James...get it?

[Chojin]

Originally Posted by Supafly345

These movies are a satire I hope you know. Like Flash Gordon.

Yes, and also, Kill Bill isn't FOR critics.

I agree with James, but the best part of this thread is Blanco pouring his heart out to us. LET IT FLOW, NANCY BOY ;_;

[DJ Potatoe]

I raraley post so quickly after posting something like that but I saw something very important and had to point it out.

El Blanco is queer.

[Chojin]

Actually, allow me to expound on that. I've heard a similiar argument from anyone that defends a Tarantino film - How It's MEANT to be cheesy, it's MEANT to be senselessly violent/stupid as a homage to pulp comics/gangster movies/80s sitcoms/Home alone/Japanese samurai films.

So:

1. Has Tarantino done ANYTHING that is not a homage or something or another?
2. Has Tarantino done ANYTHING that is allowed to be criticized because it isn't following someone else's stupid idea?
3. Does a person's intent really weigh in on whether or not a piece of shit is a piece of shit?

I like Tarantino films, but the guy is a total jackass, and his hardcore fans all use the same excuses to dismiss his shortcomings.

[Supafly345]

You mean... it wasn't a comedy?

[ziggytrix]

Originally Posted by Chojin

the guy is a total jackass, and his hardcore fans all use the same excuses to dismiss his shortcomings.

Take that out of context and you could be talking about anyone, because hardcore fans of anything are fags. The only safe path is to hate everything.