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Originally Posted by ziggytrix
I'm talking about cases where the scripture doesn't spell it out, like for birth control.
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Okay, and where do
other Christian denominations, who are seemingly doing things the right way, stand on issues such as birth control....? Do the Christian factions that rely more strictly on the literal Bible have a more liberal stance on birth control? This once again doesn't seem very consistent with your argument.
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Nope, been thinking about it though. It can't be any weirder than the Catholic Church I went to with my grandparents in some backwoods town in Arkansas. I'm supposing that was supposed to be a joke, though?
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No, it wasn't. It's not that it was necessarily weird per se, it's just sort of wishy washy. One week there'd be some reading from the Bible, the next week there'd be a lecture on the wrongs of capitalism or something.
I'm not saying that's necessarily even a bad thing, but I don't find it to be very consistent with the notions of faith, worship, and religion. Book clubs and community centers could basically fill the same need.
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Where in the scriptures is there any support for ordaining women? Did Christ ever ordain a woman....? If the Church allowed women to become priests, wouldn't they thus be breaking from scripture?
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Where in the scriptures is there any support for mortal men ordaining anything?
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Well, for starters, the conversation in Matthew between Jesus and Peter. I'm certain it's all over the place, but I hope you forgive me for not wishing to flip through both testaments in order to win a flame war on the internet.
But sure, whatever:
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Originally Posted by Galatians 3
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
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Do you know what his reputation was towards women? He's in fact one of my favorite saints, but when I bring him up, his opinion of women is one of the first things I get thrown at me. Just sort of funny that you used that line (one that often gets incorrectly used, btw) to argue that women should be ordained. Go check out 1 Corinthians 11:5.
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Of course, in 1Timothy Paul straight up says he doesn't want any women taking leadership positions over men...
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Bingo!
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But then fuck what Paul said, let's go back to what Jesus said:
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Sure.
"Whatever you declare bound on earth shall be bound in heaven; whatever you declare loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven." (Matthew 16:19)
and,
"You are 'Rock,' and on this rock I will build My Church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."(Matthew 16: 18)
Now, two things. One, Jesus is clearly granting Peter the power to build Christ's church as he wishes, do you agree? Now if Peter's succession was agreed upon, then wouldn't that validate the succession of popes? Secondly, Christ says that the gates of Hell will not prevail against it, thus, the Church would probably be built so that it could always be sustainable and defend against the powers of hell, right?
Now let's look at what Peter himself had to say:
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7 Therefore, I will always remind you of these things, even though you already know them and are established in the truth you have.
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I think it right, as long as I am in this "tent," 8 to stir you up by a reminder,
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since I know that I will soon have to put it aside, as indeed our Lord Jesus Christ has shown me.
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I shall also make every effort to enable you always to remember these things after my departure." (2 Peter 1:12)
The point I'm trying to make is this. Peter wasn't going to leave the Church, which at this time was still trying to legitimize itself, without direction, organization, and yes, succession.
So I'll say it again-- The Roman Catholic Church has its roots starting with St. Peter, who started the Churvh on its path of development. If you want to quote Jesus, then it's very important to note that he granted Peter power over this job, and the job he started is the one we continue.
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So I think the protestants have a pretty good case for saying the pope is invalid. But whatever, even if every single Christian in the world agreed, they'd still have Muslims and Jews to argue with. I think the whole lot of you are ridiculously self assured in your own holiness.
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And who said you hated religion...!?
It seems to me Ziggy that you only like a religion that doesn't actually ask you to believe in anything, or doesn't ask anything
of you. It's all "academic" to you, which is fine, but wouldn't a book club fill the same need....?