Chaos in the Libertarian Party!

[KevinTheOmnivore]

From Politics1.com:

"LIBERTARIAN PARTY: MODERATES SEIZE CONTROL, HARDCORES BOLT.
The Libertarian Reform Caucus (LRC) -- an "outsider" group of pragmatic moderates within one of America's two largest third parties -- won a dramatic upset victory at this weekend's Libertarian National Convention. "Fringe politics does not work in the United States. A political party must appeal to a plurality of voters (effectively, at least 40%) in some districts in order to win elections .. In other words, for the Libertarian Party to be effective, it must appeal to the top 20-30% of freedom-lovers. Appealing to the tiny minority of freedom-lovers who want no government at all, or something very close to that, is a recipe for failure. The platform and message of the Libertarian Party is extreme, sacrificing practicality and political appeal in favor of philosophical consistency with a single axiom. As such, the party currently appeals only to a tiny fraction of the voting public ... We, the members of the Libertarian Reform Caucus believe that America needs a real libertarian party, a party that promotes liberty while being conscious of political reality, a party designed to win elections and begin rolling back excess government now. In particular, the party needs: A platform that proposes a realistic vision for the next few years, as opposed to an idealistic vision of a libertarian future ... A platform based on the realization that there are other important values in addition to the non-initiation of force. Freedom is extremely valuable, but it is not the only value," explained the LRC's website. At the convention, the LRC succeeded in gutting all but four of the party's longstanding platform planks -- over 90% of the party's original platform -- and replaced them with a shorter, more moderate libertarian platform of four old planks and nine new ones. No previous LP convention had ever before repealed any of the party's original platform planks. "We never expected this kind of success to be had at this convention ... The delegates were obviously tired of seeing the party continue being a minor player in the political arena. At the convention many delegates spontaneously jumped on board the reform bandwagon," said an LRC spokesman. Many LRC supporters threw their support behind former party national treasurer Bill Redpath of Virginia, electing him the new National Chairman with 64% of the vote. Redpath is a fairly moderate LP leader who is committed maintaining the party's longtime 50-state ballot access strategy. LRC activist Chuck Moulton was elected LP Vice Chairman with 63%. Traditional, hardcore libertarian ideologues were infuriated by the LRC's victory. Arizona gubernatorial nominee Barry Hess angrily told the Free Libertarian blogsite that he and Arizona state party would not agree to "water down the essential principles espoused in the [old] platform's language ... we do not compromise our principles." Hess warned the LRC victory could lead to a major split in the party, spurring splinter groups to break from the national LP. "The neocon traitors who run this country infiltrated the Libertarian Party (under the guise of being moderates or libertarians-lite) and deleted most of the platform planks, including those against military interventionism and secession," wrote former LP DC Chair Carol Moore on her website. Many of the hardcore LP'ers complain the LRC is trying to turn the Libertarian Party into a socially libertarian version of the Republican Party. The schism has already begun this week, with Missouri activist Tom Knapp already attempting to launch a new hardcore libertarian entity named the Boston Tea Party."

[Miss Modular]

Originally Posted by KevinTheOmnivore

"Fringe politics does not work in the United States. A political party must appeal to a plurality of voters (effectively, at least 40%) in some districts in order to win elections .. In other words, for the Libertarian Party to be effective, it must appeal to the top 20-30% of freedom-lovers.

...

In particular, the party needs: A platform that proposes a realistic vision for the next few years, as opposed to an idealistic vision of a libertarian future ... A platform based on the realization that there are other important values in addition to the non-initiation of force. Freedom is extremely valuable, but it is not the only value," explained the LRC's website. At the convention, the LRC succeeded in gutting all but four of the party's longstanding platform planks -- over 90% of the party's original platform -- and replaced them with a shorter, more moderate libertarian platform of four old planks and nine new ones. No previous LP convention had ever before repealed any of the party's original platform planks. "We never expected this kind of success to be had at this convention ... The delegates were obviously tired of seeing the party continue being a minor player in the political arena. At the convention many delegates spontaneously jumped on board the reform bandwagon," said an LRC spokesman.

To be kind of honest, I'm glad they're doing this. I think they have a real opportunity to appeal to some the more disgruntled Republicans (just as Nader appealed to progressives who didn't want to vote for Al Gore in 2000), and some of the left that isn't fond of Hilary.

[Courage the Cowardly Dog]

I'm growing more and more fond of the libertarians. If they can implement that naitional sales tax well I think it would be a good idea. I can't stand Hillary but i am a bit disenfrachised as a republican.

[CaptainBubba]

Humans and their languages.

But seriously. This is simultaneiously retarded, and amazingly awesome, because now my decision at 16 to stop calling myself a libertarian under the suspicion that one day they would disolve their principles to make a delicious political power milkshake has been proven legitimate! I suspect this will set the way for the current republicans to slowly but surely shift seamlessly into "libertarians" as the American public's distaste for republicans grows. So nothing has changed and people who value principles and freedom continue bitching! Hooray for politics!

[Courage the Cowardly Dog]

I consider myslef primarily a republican. I am rather moralistic, more so than most would be comfortable with (aside form being a foul mouthed ass I still stand by that) And I do tend to value freedom a lot but mainly first amendment I DO support heavy gun control and registration although I don't think the 2nd amendment should be taken away.

I believe Laissez faire to a big degree but I do hate my parties lack of social programs and social thought. I could use help paying for medical bills (although i hate to depend on the government I almost have to due to my income level and we can't let people just die because they are poor) It seems we have very little thought on the intra national scale for finance too, I like Alan Keye's suggestion of offering tax breaks to manufacturing companies who want to move in or back to america to set up shop in poor areas like the projects where prevailing wage is minimum wage and people are hungry for jobs. After all a poor paying job is better then none at all.

I have a lot of complaints and I'm kind of lening more towards libertarian now then ever.

[ItalianStereotype]

except for the fact that you obviously don't know what a libertarian is

[Courage the Cowardly Dog]

Originally Posted by ItalianStereotype

except for the fact that you obviously don't know what a libertarian is

I like their tax plan and support of the bill of rights. Libertarians basicly go for the less government the better.

[ItalianStereotype]

and completely oblivious you remain.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Originally Posted by Miss Modular

I think they have a real opportunity to appeal to some the more disgruntled Republicans (just as Nader appealed to progressives who didn't want to vote for Al Gore in 2000), and some of the left that isn't fond of Hilary.

I agree. As I've said in other discussions here with Preechr, I think the Libertarian Party is situated to be the strongest third party this country has seen in a long time. The reasons, imo, are as follows:

1. They actually have a foundation in theory, and really provide a "third way" (pardon the pun). Now, I do believe Bubba's concerns are valid. It could become really sexy for unhappy Republicans to start calling themselves "Libertarians" (sort of how everybody is a "progressive" now), which could possibly drown out any substance the party had. But eh, this is the way it goes. The most successful third parties in our nation's history found ways to draw from both of the two major parties, and managed to mesh those ideas together with something that's digestable for a "plurality" of Americans.

2. They have truly been a grassroots party. Parties like the Green Party like to think they are, but they are far too focused on wasting energy and resources on federal elections (granted, Nader 2000 helped increase the size of the party all across the country, but many of those folks have since walked away from the party due to poorly structured local systems, and the inability of the party to win local offices).

The Libertarian Party to this point has prioritized a 50 state balot strategy. They do nominate candidates for president, but as far as I can tell, they don't invest in it the way other third parties have. They win local offices, city offices, and political appointments. But more impressively, they make sure that voters in every state see that they ae an option on the ballot.

3. The time is ripe for a third party to thrive. People are down on government across the board, and ar tired of the apparent inability of Washington insiders to handle Iraq, lower gas prices, control the borders, "fix" the public trust in the economy, etc. etc. Pick your issue.

So along comes a party that proposes a crazy notion-- People in DC aren't going to fix your "problems", YOU are. In fact, get government out of your life (at least to the levels it has taken), let freedom and iberty prevail, and the rest will sort itself out. Make sure the government is securing our borders and killing our enemies. That's about it.

That's my take anyway.

I guess my question to the Libertarians on the board is this-- Do you want to see the LP replace a major party, or do you truly want a Western Europe-style, multi-party system....?

[Preechr]

Originally Posted by KevinTheOmnivore

I guess my question to the Libertarians on the board is this-- Do you want to see the LP replace a major party, or do you truly want a Western Europe-style, multi-party system....?

I want to see a French style "round-robin" election system, with as many political parties as possible.

That is just about as unlikely as your idea that the "time is ripe" for a third-party is correct. Watch Johnny Noname run for President for the LP in 08, and watch him get locked out of the debates and black-balled by the media, just like 04. Have you forgotten how Badnarik and whatshisname from the Greens got JAILED for trying to get into the 2nd round of debates? Have you forgotton that only ONE media outlet even mentioned that?

Sorry... skip that... the last thing I want right now is to get into another slappy-fight with you over strategy...

You must have also forgotten that Americans are more dependent on government "services" now than they ever have been, even as I just heard on the news that Bush claims the booming economy is due to his tax cuts and the "clamp-down" on spending and services. I shit right there in the seat of my van.

Go ahead and keep on getting into this idea. Follow your thoughts on through to conclusion, and then explain to me HOW we get Americans from here to accepting personal responsibility for their own actions, then I will kiss your ass, even giving you ten minutes to draw a crowd and set up a webcam.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

You are whiney.

I'll respond later.

[El Blanco]

Originally Posted by Preechr

That is just about as unlikely as your idea that the "time is ripe" for a third-party is correct. Watch Johnny Noname run for President

Who says it has to be a noname? Why not get a Leiberman type candidate? Name recognition, Washinton experience and connections.

for the LP in 08, and watch him get locked out of the debates and black-balled by the media, just like 04. Have you forgotten how Badnarik and whatshisname from the Greens got JAILED for trying to get into the 2nd round of debates? Have you forgotton that only ONE media outlet even mentioned that?

You weren't paying attention. This isn't a blitz for 2008. This is thinking further down the line. They are making a push for state and local governments to build a foundation. Once they have a presence on that lelvel, then they can think federal.

Right now, they have a man on first and are trying to push him around using small ball.

You must have also forgotten that Americans are more dependent on government "services" now than they ever have been, even as I just heard on the news that Bush claims the booming economy is due to his tax cuts and the "clamp-down" on spending and services. I shit right there in the seat of my van.

Thats gotta change sometime. Maybe weening us off at the local level is how it starts.

Go ahead and keep on getting into this idea. Follow your thoughts on through to conclusion, and then explain to me HOW we get Americans from here to accepting personal responsibility for their own actions, then I will kiss your ass, even giving you ten minutes to draw a crowd and set up a webcam.

It used to be that way. What made it happen and what made it stop?