The D-Day Thread

[Jim Duncan - Weather]

My grandfather's brothers were killed by those German cock suckers in France.

[Guitar Woman]

Originally Posted by Dole

Obviously that sounds like a horrible, undignified way to die but they were fighting for the German Army (presumably) and it was a war situation, and a particularly desperate one, even for WW2.

Well, he didn't have much of a choice. It was join the army or die. :/

Also, they surrendered and had given up all of their weapons. There was no reason to shoot them.

[ziggytrix]

How could you possibly know that? If they were all shot, who told the story?

[kellychaos]

WWII Trivia: German rations were soilient green.

[Guitar Woman]

Originally Posted by ziggytrix

How could you possibly know that? If they were all shot, who told the story?

An officer finally stopped them after about 3/4 of the company were dead. One of the survivors happened to be my dad's godfather.

[El Blanco]

Originally Posted by Guitar Woman

Well, he didn't have much of a choice. It was join the army or die. :/

What about the Allied soldiers that they were shooting at?

Also, they surrendered and had given up all of their weapons. There was no reason to shoot them.

Depends on who actually caught them. If it was an airborne unit, then there may have been justification (unable to keep prisoners).

If it was at a batalion HQ, then we may be discussing a war crime.

[Guitar Woman]

They were some of the British infantry soldiers that had just taken Sword Beach and were waiting for reinforcements to arrive.

I think that has war crime written all over it.

[tenno]

i'm german too, but we've been in the US for like 100 years...no history for me

[El Blanco]

Originally Posted by Guitar Woman

They were some of the British infantry soldiers that had just taken Sword Beach and were waiting for reinforcements to arrive.

I think that has war crime written all over it.

Were they capable of holding prisoners? Were they waiting for reinforcements because of the prisoners and had to be pushing inland before the German counter attack?

[Jim Duncan - Weather]

Actually, it's not a war crime, considering there was a basic threat to the lives of the soldiers. They were invading enemy territory, and didn't know if the Germans would be able to call for reinforcements. The Germans could have called on support from a nearby Panzer division.

[Dole]

They were some of the British infantry soldiers that had just taken Sword Beach and were waiting for reinforcements to arrive.

I think that has war crime written all over it.

Considering what those men must have gone through to take that beach, its no surprise they would have killed anyone they could get their hands on. Thats not a justification, but it is the reason.

[Guitar Woman]

Originally Posted by Jim Duncan - Weather

Actually, it's not a war crime, considering there was a basic threat to the lives of the soldiers. They were invading enemy territory, and didn't know if the Germans would be able to call for reinforcements. The Germans could have called on support from a nearby Panzer division.

Ok, let me see if I get this:
>The Germans have been disarmed and are being held prisoner.
>Their radios have been destroyed or confiscated.
>The British have rifles, SMGs, BARs, and tanks.
>The unarmed Germans are considered a threat to the heavily armed British soldiers, and are killed.
>A British officer has to give the order to stop multiple times before the soldiers cease fire.

Oh yeah, now I completely understand your reasoning, Jim. How could I ever have believed that those British soldiers had committed a war crime?

[kellychaos]

Barely establishing a beach head in a german-occupied country is hardly grounds to consider one's self secure regardless of the equipment on-hand.

[Guitar Woman]

If you knew anything about WWII, you'd know that Rommel had a minimum amount of reinforcements that he could afford to send to the beachheads, you fucking retard. :/

[Chojin]

To be fair, since Kelly is in the armed forces, I think he has a pretty good idea of what happens in the US Military. I don't think getting lined up and shot in a war situation is really something to get that upset about - These were the same people who had just been shooting and killing your friends. What do you think goes on in war, anyway? We killed tens of thousands of people in Japan that had little to nothing to do with the war effort, and they seem to be coping with the concept (albeit through horrid cartoon porn).

[kellychaos]

Originally Posted by Guitar Woman

If you knew anything about WWII, you'd know that Rommel had a minimum amount of reinforcements that he could afford to send to the beachheads, you fucking retard. :/

Aside from intelligence from sources (air recon and radio traffic) that are unreliable and changeable (re: weapons of mass destruction), how were they to know exactly what forces were at hand? Keep in mind, also, that this was Germany's famed, inpenterable "Atlantic Wall", their last line of defense. An obstacle so respected by the U.S./Britain that minute details like tides, weather, ect almost cancelled the whole operation. We didn't even think that we'd get as far as we did. The casualties ranged from 30-50% depending on your location and type of unit and this was low based on OUR own predictions. And then you're going to tell me these guys are going to carry along prisoners when time is so critical? Christ!! Grant it, the methodology was inhumane but the practicality cannot be denied.

[Guitar Woman]

They didn't just parade into France after taking the beach head, dumbass. They were just sitting there, waiting for the big ships with all the troops on board to come in and completely secure the area. They could have held a lot more than 15 prisoners that had no will left to fight without incident.

[ItalianStereotype]

the Geneva Convention wasn't signed until 1951, so "war crimes" were pretty commonplace during the two world wars.

that aside, after taking the beaches at Normandy, I'm surprised that the officers themselves weren't offing any German that they could find. the beaches were slaughterhouses and I'd imagine that every soldier who took part saw more carnage than he could humanly cope with. this isn't to say that it isn't tragic that your grandfather and his unit were rounded up and shot one by one, but keep in mind that your grandfather was on the side that was destroying the Allied forces as they hit the beach.

[El Blanco]

Originally Posted by Guitar Woman

They didn't just parade into France after taking the beach head, dumbass. They were just sitting there, waiting for the big ships with all the troops on board to come in and completely secure the area. They could have held a lot more than 15 prisoners that had no will left to fight without incident.

They were also waiting for the German counteroffensive, which did come. Even if They were strapped for manpower, the Allies didn't know that. They had every reason to believe that the Germans were coming to Normandy with the Wrath of God.

Now, you're on the beach. Your unit was just turned into ground chuck, you're hoping that reinforcements come soon. The only things you have are what you could carry that didn't get washed away or shot up when you hit the beach. There may even be some Germans still entrenched and fighting on the cliffs.

On top of that, the greatest war machine the world had ever seen is now aware you just invaded and is launching its counter attack at you.


How eagar are you to take care of prisoners?

[jin]

"eager". ;o

Bad spelling completely undermines your credibility. So does name-calling and emotional argument. ;0

[kellychaos]

Originally Posted by Guitar Woman

They didn't just parade into France after taking the beach head, dumbass. They were just sitting there, waiting for the big ships with all the troops on board to come in and completely secure the area. They could have held a lot more than 15 prisoners that had no will left to fight without incident.

As pointed out earlier, they were awaiting a counter-offensive. Stress. In addition, since we placed forces behind the lines in the form of gliders and paratroopers who needed help. Additional stress. This was done to form an effect of a pincer maneuver ... i.e. to trap the german shoreline forces between the beach-head and our troops who were behind the lines. In other words, time was critical as every movement had to be offensive so as to reinforce the troops "behind the lines". That is why your scenario doesn't even make much sense to me. The brits are going to push through the shore defense and then pull the german soldiers back onto the beach to commit this "war crime"? That simply doesn't make sense. I think that somebody had their story confused here.