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Old Oct 22nd, 2003, 02:31 PM        Can't any of that 87 Billion go to help wounded soldiers?
Sick U.S. Troops Held In Squalor
United Press International
October 18, 2003

FORT STEWART - Hundreds of sick and wounded U.S. soldiers including many who served in the Iraq war are languishing in hot cement barracks here while they wait, sometimes for months, to see doctors.

The National Guard and Army Reserve soldiers' living conditions are so substandard, and the medical care so poor, that many of them believe the Army is trying push them out with reduced benefits for their ailments. One document shown to UPI states that no more doctor appointments are available from Oct. 14 through Nov. 11 - Veterans Day.

"I have loved the Army. I have served the Army faithfully and I have done everything the Army has asked me to do," said Sgt. 1st Class Willie Buckels, a truck master with the 296th Transportation Company. Buckels served in the Army Reserves for 27 years, including Operation Iraqi Freedom and the first Gulf War. "Now my whole idea about the U.S. Army has changed. I am treated like a third-class citizen."

Since getting back from Iraq in May, Buckels, 52, has been trying to get doctors to find out why he has intense pain in the side of his abdomen since doubling over in pain there.

After waiting since May for a diagnosis, Buckels has accepted 20 percent of his benefits for bad knees and is going home to his family in Mississippi. "They have not found out what my side is doing yet, but they are still trying," Buckels said.

One month after President Bush greeted soldiers at Fort Stewart -- home of the famed Third Infantry Division -- as heroes on their return from Iraq, approximately 600 sick or injured members of the Army Reserves and National Guard are warehoused in rows of spare, steamy and dark cement barracks in a sandy field, waiting for doctors to treat their wounds or illnesses.

The Reserve and National Guard soldiers are on what the Army calls "medical hold," while the Army decides how sick or disabled they are and what benefits -- if any -- they should get as a result.

Some of the soldiers said they have waited six hours a day for an appointment without seeing a doctor. Others described waiting weeks or months without getting a diagnosis or proper treatment.

The soldiers said professional active duty personnel are getting better treatment while troops who serve in the National Guard or Army Reserve are left to wallow in medical hold.

"It is not an Army of One. It is the Army of two -- Army and Reserves," said one soldier who served in Operation Iraqi Freedom, during which she developed a serious heart condition and strange skin ailment.

A half-dozen calls by UPI seeking comment from Fort Stewart public affairs officials and U.S. Forces Command in Atlanta were not returned.

Soldiers here estimate that nearly 40 percent of the personnel now in medical hold were deployed to Iraq. Of those who went, many described clusters of strange ailments, like heart and lung problems, among previously healthy troops. They said the Army has tried to refuse them benefits, claiming the injuries and illnesses were due to a "pre-existing condition," prior to military service.

Most soldiers in medical hold at Fort Stewart stay in rows of rectangular, gray, single-story cinder block barracks without bathrooms or air conditioning. They are dark and sweltering in the southern Georgia heat and humidity. Around 60 soldiers cram in the bunk beds in each barrack.

Soldiers make their way by walking or using crutches through the sandy dirt to a communal bathroom, where they have propped office partitions between otherwise open toilets for privacy. A row of leaky sinks sits on an opposite wall. The latrine smells of urine and is full of bugs, because many windows have no screens. Showering is in a communal, cinder block room. Soldiers say they have to buy their own toilet paper.

They said the conditions are fine for training, but not for sick people.

"I think it is disgusting," said one Army Reserve member who went to Iraq and asked that his name not be used.

That soldier said that after being deployed in March he suffered a sudden onset of neurological symptoms in Baghdad that has gotten steadily worse. He shakes uncontrollably.

He said the Army has told him he has Parkinson's Disease and it was a pre-existing condition, but he thinks it was something in the anthrax shots the Army gave him.

"They say I have Parkinson's, but it is developing too rapidly," he said. "I did not have a problem until I got those shots."

First Sgt. Gerry Mosley crossed into Iraq from Kuwait on March 19 with the 296th Transportation Company, hauling fuel while under fire from the Iraqis as they traveled north alongside combat vehicles. Mosley said he was healthy before the war; he could run two miles in 17 minutes at 48 years old.

But he developed a series of symptoms: lung problems and shortness of breath; vertigo; migraines; and tinnitus. He also thinks the anthrax vaccine may have hurt him. Mosley also has a torn shoulder from an injury there.

Mosley says he has never been depressed before, but found himself looking at shotguns recently and thought about suicide.

Mosley is paying $300 a month to get better housing than the cinder block barracks. He has a notice from the base that appears to show that no more doctor appointments are available for reservists from Oct. 14 until Nov. 11. He said he has never been treated like this in his 30 years in the Army Reserves.

"Now, I would not go back to war for the Army," Mosley said.

Many soldiers in the hot barracks said regular Army soldiers get to see doctors, while National Guard and Army Reserve troops wait.

"The active duty guys that are coming in, they get treated first and they put us on hold," said another soldier who returned from Iraq six weeks ago with a serious back injury. He has gotten to see a doctor only two times since he got back, he said.

Another Army Reservist with the 149th Infantry Battalion said he has had real trouble seeing doctors about his crushed foot he suffered in Iraq. "There are not enough doctors. They are overcrowded and they can't perform the surgeries that have to be done," that soldier said. "Look at these mattresses. It hurts just to sit on them," he said, gesturing to the bunks. "There are people here who got back in April but did not get their surgeries until July. It is putting a lot on these families."

The Pentagon is reportedly drawing up plans to call up more reserves.

In an Oct. 9 speech to National Guard and reserve troops in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, Bush said the soldiers had become part of the backbone of the military.

"Citizen-soldiers are serving in every front on the war on terror," Bush said. "And you're making your state and your country proud."
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Old Oct 22nd, 2003, 03:35 PM       
How much longer can the Bush administration continue to shit on our troops before they face serious reprisals?
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Old Oct 22nd, 2003, 04:04 PM       
Stars and Stripes is currently using measuring that question this way:

"Many Troops Dissatisfied, Iraq Poll Finds

By Bradley Graham and Dana Milbank
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, October 16, 2003; Page A01

A broad survey of U.S. troops in Iraq by a Pentagon-funded newspaper found that half of those questioned described their unit's morale as low and their training as insufficient, and said they do not plan to reenlist.

The survey, conducted by the Stars and Stripes newspaper, also recorded about a third of the respondents complaining that their mission lacks clear definition and characterizing the war in Iraq as of little or no value. Fully 40 percent said the jobs they were doing had little or nothing to do with their training.

The findings, drawn from 1,935 questionnaires presented to U.S. service members throughout Iraq, conflict with statements by military commanders and Bush administration officials that portray the deployed troops as high-spirited and generally well-prepared. Though not obtained through scientific methods, the survey results suggest that a combination of difficult conditions, complex missions and prolonged tours in Iraq is wearing down a significant portion of the U.S. force and threatening to provoke a sizable exodus from military service.

In the first of a week-long series of articles, Stars and Stripes said yesterday that it undertook the survey in August after receiving scores of letters from troops who were upset with one aspect or another of the Iraq operation. The newspaper, which receives some funding from the Defense Department but functions without editorial control by the Pentagon, prepared 17 questions and sent three teams of reporters to Iraq to conduct the survey and related interviews at nearly 50 camps.

"We conducted a 'convenience survey,' meaning we gave it to those who happened to be available at the time rather than to a randomly selected cross section, so the results cannot necessarily be projected as representing the whole population," said David Mazzarella, the paper's editorial director here. "But we still think the findings are significant and make clear that the troops have a different idea of things than what their leaders have been saying."
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Old Oct 22nd, 2003, 04:11 PM       
yep, looks like we're gonna have a second set of gulf war vets all chewed up.

a question for any of the military folks here... it's my understanding that a huge percentage serving are latino men coming from a recent pool of second generation immigrants. does this sound accurate?
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Old Oct 22nd, 2003, 04:17 PM       
This is conjecture on my part based on what I've seen in a lot of the joint training missions I've seen in the regular army which involved the national guard and/or reserve: At times, there are those in the NG/Reserve who have limited or nonexistent medical insurance outside that which the active military provides DURING training or "real world operations". Do to this fact, there are some who abuse the system by attributing injuries/ailments which they have sustained outside their period of training and attributing those same injuries/ailments to things which occurred within the timeframe. Consequently, those that act in accoradance with the regulations are shat upon by the bad apples who have left them with this stigma. This seems to be the prevailing attitude amongst the active duty medical care professionals (and indeed many GIs, in general). I'm not saying that it's right. I'm just saying the attitude is there. I'm not sure whether this has any bearing on the situation to which you're referring, Max.
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Old Oct 22nd, 2003, 04:35 PM       
Maybe what really happened is they(iraq) really did release a chemical biological weapon and now all these fools are fucked up and the doctors/military are afraid and don't know what to do about it.

DUN DUN DUN.
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Old Oct 22nd, 2003, 04:42 PM       
They're still not owning up to those types of things from the LAST Guld War let alone Agent Orange, ect.
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Old Oct 22nd, 2003, 06:07 PM       
Sure, but in this one they'd be all over any possibility that WMD had been used.

That's a future sideshow, though.

This sideshow is returning servicemen lieing around in legal limbo in a sub standard camp waiting for medical appointments.
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Old Oct 22nd, 2003, 07:08 PM        Points of reference
Just like to add two quick things for perspective.

First, there are probalby somewhere close to 300,000 people deployed to the Middle East right now. The fact that a whopping 40% of the just under 2,000 that took the time to reply to the Stars and Stripes survery (which from my expereince provides little more to the troops than a way to keep up with sports scores back home) is hardly an insightful picture of the morale level. I'm quite sure that there is a lot of division on the subject, which can even vary from day to day. I'm not saying there isn't plenty of discontent over there, but I don't think a Stars and Stripes survey of 2,000 troops is a fair indication.

Second, in my opinion, this article as a whole is a bit of an attempt at sensationalism. I've been around this business for a few years now and see my fair share of things. From my experience, probably half of the medical facilities in the military are inadequate, particulary those that cater primarily to Guard/Reservists and retirees. Retired military folks have been complaining about the poor quality of health care service for as long as I've been around.

Additionaly, I believe Kellychaos touched on this, but it's true that when it comes to the money gravy train, the Reserve/Guard-Retiree type facilities are at the bottom of the totem pole. I can think of a handful of military facilities that are some of the best in the nation (Wilford Hall, Walter Reed). Typically, when it comes to places like Ft. Stewart, GA, the money just isn't flowing.

The point I'm making is that while this is certianly a problem, I find the timing of the article and the attempt to somehow tie it to the current administration and ongoing situation in the middle east a bit of a stretch. Five years ago Ft. Stewart was as shitty as it is today, it just didn't have the "sellability" that the article does now.
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Old Oct 22nd, 2003, 07:25 PM       
What would happen if a very large number of soldiers just put down their guns and refused to do anything until their concerns were addressed? Seriously.

Soldiers have gone on strike for thousands of years. They even made Alexander the Great turn around and head home.
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Old Oct 22nd, 2003, 11:03 PM       
THIS IS AMERICA CHIMP, THE LAND OF THE FREE. THE LAND WHERE MEN CAN LIVE THEIR LIVES WITHOUT THE WORRY OF AN OPPRESSIVE DICTATOR. WE DONT GO ON STRIKE, WE DONT HAVE OPINIONS, WE ARE JUST GRATEFUL FOR THE CHANCE TO KILL PEOPLE LEGALLY AND ALSO HARASS FOREIGN WHORES.
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Old Oct 23rd, 2003, 02:01 AM       
Wait a fucking minute here, I totally object to this Khal. I realize I have somewhat nationalistic tendancies, but I think even the most objective will agree with me that they wouldn't fucking well be called whores it they didn't like being harassed.
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Old Oct 23rd, 2003, 09:08 AM       
Ror, it's common knowledge that all foreigners have tiny cocks, so by patronizing the foreign whores, American soldiers are literally tearing them up.
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Old Oct 23rd, 2003, 03:53 PM       
Look ror, I am not here to discuss the morality of being a whore, or completing your whorish duties. Only to note that it is our job as American citizens to carry out our task, no our duty... no our DESTINY to "Harass" or otherwise "Stick your penis" into foreign whores. I mean, you can't do it in america, that would be dishonorable! So disgrace other's I say, and after you've fucked their whores, don't forget to shoot their men and steal their porno and drugs.


*salutes a flag gently swaying in the wind, with a single tear*
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Old Oct 23rd, 2003, 04:11 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by AChimp
What would happen if a very large number of soldiers just put down their guns and refused to do anything until their concerns were addressed? Seriously.
Federal employees can't strike. In fact, they specifically layout exactly what a soldier can and can't do in the regulations in addition to the more current advisements that the public relations offices of the military relay. Remember the air traffic controller situation, "Don't like it?! Bubbye!". Anyway, I imagine the consequences involved for a striking soldier would be much more dire than the loss of their job.
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Old Oct 23rd, 2003, 05:36 PM       
Yeah, but would they do that to a few thousand soldiers?
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Old Oct 25th, 2003, 04:34 PM       
There's a rebellion in the making from somewhere ... and soon. Even the conservatives are gettin' antsy.
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Old Oct 25th, 2003, 11:32 PM       
And I will lead them all into REVOLUTION.
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