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Preechr Preechr is offline
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Old Jul 14th, 2004, 06:18 PM        The New Groupthink
By WILLIAM SAFIRE

The salient news in the Senate Intelligence Committee report is this: all you have been hearing about "he lied to us" and "they cooked the books" is a lot of partisan nonsense.

The 511-page Senate report concluded this: Nobody in the White House or the Pentagon pressured the C.I.A. to change an intelligence analysis to conform to the judgment that the world would be a safer place with the monstrous Saddam overthrown.

Ah, second-guessers say, but what about "groupthink"? Before Gulf War I, the consensus held that Saddam was five to 10 years away from producing a nuclear bomb, but when we went in, we discovered that his W.M.D. were less than six months away.

The group then switched. When Saddam later obstructed U.N. inspectors — forgoing $100 billion in oil sales to keep out prying eyes — groupthinkers logically concluded that the "Butcher of Baghdad" had been hiding weapons. Senator Jay Rockefeller, a Democrat who is privy to secret intelligence, spoke for the group in late 2002: "Saddam's existing biological and chemical weapons capabilities pose a very real threat to America now."

Today, as Election Day approaches, groupthink has swung back again, to this: Saddam not only had no terror weapons, but he had little or nothing to do with Al Qaeda — therefore, our liberation of Iraq was a waste of lives and money.

Consider the official pressure to get with the latest groupthink: the 9/11 commission staff assured us recently that repeated contacts between Iraq and Al Qaeda (including the presence in Baghdad and Kurdistan of the reigning terrorist, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi), "did not appear to have resulted in a collaborative relationship." This week, the Senate Intelligence Committee chimed in, saying these contacts "did not add up to an established formal relationship." (Italics mine.)

Think about that. Do today's groupthinkers believe that Osama bin Laden would sit down with Saddam in front of the world's cameras to sign a mutual assistance pact, establishing a formal relationship? Terrorists and rogue states don't work that way. Mass killers collaborate informally, without a photo op, even secretly.

But groupthinkers march lock step in election-season judgments. In contrast, we new iconoclasts hope that when the 9/11 commissioners release their findings on the eve of the Democratic convention, they will lay out in detail specific evidence of the Baghdad-terrorist links over the years before brushing it aside as informal. Let readers, not politicians and sound-biters, judge.

And while our Monday morning quarterbacks are dumping all over our intelligence agencies as a pack of inept sheep, we in the non-group might ask, with Juvenal, quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who is to watch the watchers?

The Senate Intelligence Committee, with a staff of 30 and an annual budget of $3.5 million, exists to oversee our intelligence services, to note their shortcomings and to demand that they be fixed, on pain of withholding funds.

Where has this Senate committee (and its House counterpart, Porter Goss's "Hipsie") been for the past decade? Did any of its recent members — John Edwards, for one — or any staff members have the wit to ask the C.I.A., with its $40 billion a year to spend, how many American spies we had in Iraq? (Answer: not one.) If the intelligence agencies were as badly run for years as the Senate now says, then Congressional oversight has long been bleary-eyed.

Strange, considering how the nation's interest is riveted on this week's report on our Iraqi intelligence mistakes, how little interest was shown in the Senate Intelligence Committee's extensive report on the terrorist attack on the U.S.S. Cole in October 2000, which cost the lives of 17 American sailors.

The committee's staff director tells me that the 35-page document was disseminated to the intelligence community, but was never made public by Bob Graham, a Democrat who was chairman then. No reporter agitated for a copy until I just did.

If the committee was sharply critical of the C.I.A. in 2002, why wasn't the public alerted to the failures that led to the Cole bombing — and why wasn't action taken to shake up the place then?

Contrariwise, if the senators found nothing worthy of public correction at the C.I.A. and the F.B.I. at the end of the Clinton years, then political posterior-covering motivates their belated need to excoriate the agency they failed to oversee.



Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company
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mburbank~ Yes, okay, fine, I do know what you meant, but why is it not possible for you to get through a paragraph without making all the words cry?

How can someone who obviously thinks so much of their ideas have so little respect for expressing them? How can someone who so yearns to be taken seriously make so little effort?!
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Jul 14th, 2004, 11:41 PM       
Hey, FYI interms of this board:

People who just post article after article tend to get ignored.

Believe me, I know....
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mburbank mburbank is offline
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Old Jul 15th, 2004, 08:43 AM       
Heres what I think about the whole 'group think' argument.

1.) think it's arguable. I even think it could be the truth.

2.) Either way, this is the most favorable light we can see the whole thing in.

3.) That being the case, I hardly think it should be called 'exoneration'.


This is like saying "You should vote for me because I was in charge at a time when almost everyone under me got it wrong and we made monumental policy shifts, lost a lot of soldiers and money and killed a lot of people over something we were all totally wrong about."

Add to that, W. has had nothing but Praise for the people who made these mistakes. The 'intelligent' was good, Tennet was wonderful, Rumsfeld is a hero. We all of u got it totally wrong and we did a great job.

And THAT is the best spin we can put on things. This is a massive failure of government. W. is engaging in typical CEO behavior!

"My company failed, I deserve a huge raise!"

As an American citizen I don't care to watch president CEO sail off on golden parachute while I get laid off , loose my pension and watch my investments vanish.

Sam goes for Blair. They're both saying "I didn't cause massive failure, and I didn't lie. I merely presided over a massive failure and huge loss of life. I still think it was the right thing to do, even if the reasons were wrong, because they could have been right. Everyone did the best they could."

And there's the rub. The job of our intelligence agencies is to get it right. When they don't that's a failure. Is W. (or Blair) shocked and horrified? Apologetic? Are they even admitting this is pretty bad? No. theey call this exoneration. The Buck stops nowhere.
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Preechr Preechr is offline
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Old Jul 15th, 2004, 11:31 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinTheOmnivore
Hey, FYI interms of this board:

People who just post article after article tend to get ignored.

Believe me, I know....
Yeah... I figured, however, that I'd throw a few taught lines out and see if I got a nibble. I've been writing a bit over there, and planning some more, on this subject, as I believe rehabbing the CIA to be the best thing that could come out of this scenario, if we can find some DCers that get their minds off gay sex long enough to do something productive.

Max, the groupthink excuse, as you've noted, is just so much political whitewash posing as an ultimately weak excuse. In my mind, the reason we consistently fail in "on the ground" human intelligence gathering is wholly due to the decades of blundering interference the CIA is responsible for in that region. The answer to "Why do they Hate us?" is primarily pointing at the CIA... not our governmental policies, the Jews, or our military. It's pretty hard to tell the difference between good screwing around with their governments and bad screwing around with their governments, and I'm not so sure we should even expect them to try.

Internal turf wars and ill-conceived operations got us into this mess, and we won't be able to rely on the same tried and true buffoonery to get us out. The War on Terror is an intelligence war, and if the best we can come up with in methodology is what we've seen at Abu Ghraib, things aren't looking so good. The CIA has a long, rich history of patching up messes it created, just as we've always been able to count on DC to whitewash whatever went so bad we had to send soldiers to fix.

This is my soapbox du jour, and as I said, I've been working on it over there... If ya'll would like to discuss it, I'd be interested in your views.
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mburbank~ Yes, okay, fine, I do know what you meant, but why is it not possible for you to get through a paragraph without making all the words cry?

How can someone who obviously thinks so much of their ideas have so little respect for expressing them? How can someone who so yearns to be taken seriously make so little effort?!
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conus conus is offline
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Old Jul 15th, 2004, 01:05 PM       
Quote:
Terrorists and rogue states don't work that way. Mass killers collaborate informally, without a photo op, even secretly.
William Safire should know. Few people in the world have as much experience in this area. As a former employee of Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger, Safire well understands the necessity of secrecy when planning terrorist bombings.
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