Nice to see our govt loves to murder innocent people...

[VinceZeb]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...comatose_woman

Fla. Doctors Remove Woman's Feeding Tube
23 minutes ago Add Top Stories - AP to My Yahoo!


By MITCH STACY, Associated Press Writer

PINELLAS PARK, Fla. — The feeding tube keeping a severely brain-damaged woman alive was removed Wednesday, all but ending an epic, 10-year legal battle between her husband and her parents.


Terri Schiavo, 39, had the tube removed at the Tampa Bay-area hospice where she has lived for several years, said her father, Bob Schindler. Attorneys representing her husband, Michael Schiavo, said it will take between a week and 10 days for her to die.


The parents want Terri Schiavo to live, and her husband says she would rather die. She has been in a vegetative state since 1990, when her heart stopped because of what doctors said may have been a chemical imbalance.


Bob Schindler said he and his wife, Mary, went in to see their daughter shortly after the tube was removed and gave her a kiss and hugged her. He said his daughter was not as responsive as they claim she normally has been.


"She's OK for the next couple of days," said Suzanne Carr, Terri Schiavo's sister. "We are just going to try to work some magic."


"I have to believe that somebody is doing something, somewhere to stop this judicial homicide," she said.


Michael Schiavo and his attorney George Felos were not immediately available for comment after the removal of the tube.


Several right-to-die cases across the nation have been fought in the courts in recent years, but few, if any, have been this drawn-out and bitter. The tangled case has already been handled by 19 separate judges and the tube has been ordered removed three times. At one point 2001, the tube was removed for two days before a judge ordered feeding to be resumed based on new evidence.


About 100 protesters stood outside the hospice Wednesday in what has become a 24-hour vigil staged by advocates for the disabled and anti-abortion activists.


Wednesday's removal came just hours after Gov. Jeb Bush told the Schindlers that he was instructing his legal staff to find some means to block a court order allowing Michael Schiavo to end his wife's life. But even the family's lawyer has said their legal remedies have been exhausted.


"I am not a doctor, I am not a lawyer. But I know that if a person can be able to sustain life without life support, that should be tried," the governor said, adding the "ultimate decision of this is in the courts."


Family members held out hope that they could save her life and were heartened by the governor's last-minute effort.


"The family has not given up hope on Terri," the woman's brother, Bob Schindler Jr., said following a meeting with Bush. "We have spoken to the governor, and he hasn't given up hope either."


Schiavo's family members believe she is capable of learning how to eat and drink on her own and say she has shown signs of trying to communicate and could be rehabilitated.


Michael Schiavo says he is carrying out his wife's wishes that she not be kept alive artificially.


Felos has said that the Schindlers were "still in denial" over Terri Schiavo's wishes not to be kept alive with the tube, an IV-like device that pumps food and water into her stomach.


Doctors have testified that the noises and facial expressions Terri Schiavo makes are reflexes and do not indicate that she has enough mental capabilities to communicate with others.


The Florida Supreme Court (news - web sites) has twice refused to hear the case, and it also has been rejected for review by the U.S. Supreme Court (news - web sites). On Tuesday, a Florida appeals court again refused to block removal of the tube.

The Schindlers first sought to remove Michael Schiavo as his wife's guardian in 1993 after a falling out over her medical care. They say he now has a conflict of interest because he is engaged to another woman and they have a child together.

The family has also leveled allegations that Michael Schiavo has abused Terri Schiavo, although the accusations have not been substantiated.

Michael Schiavo has refused to divorce his wife, saying that he fears her parents would ignore her desire to die if they became her guardians.

[AChimp]

IT IS THE HUSBAND'S RIGHT TO DECIDE BECAUSE THE BIBLE SAYS SO!

[derrida]

Vince: She was no more a "person" than a human fetus. She wasn't even a chicken. Sheesh.

[mburbank]

I agree with Vinth. No on should remove his feeding tube.

[El Blanco]

See, this is an area I'm iffy on. Is there a difference between activly killing someone and stopping extraordinary measures to keep them alive?

This spot is different fro mabortion on at least that level. Although, I would play it safe and keep her alive.

[VinceZeb]

She is going to feel the pains of starvation while this tube is not feeding her. That is putting someone through suffering. They really don't know whether or not she wanted to die if in this condition. If they wanted her to not go on any longer but not suffer pain, they would do her in lethal injection style

[mburbank]

You're against needless suffering? That's news to me. Suppose it turns out that thirteen years ago when she was still up and walking around she did things you don't approve of, like say, voting democrat or using welfare? Then could you get on board with her suffering?

You're aware that the reason they're sttraving her to death and not using a lethal injection, is that Florida has laws against euthanasia? See, lethal injection is okay for covicted murderers, but not for people who have been in persistent vegitative state for thirteen years.

You're aware that the Husband says, and has been saying for quite some time that his wife had made clear her desires on the subject of being kept alive? Is it your assumption he's lieing? What do you base that on?

You're aware that what the court decided was who will speak for this woman who can't speak for herself, and not what to actually do with her?

You're aware that you're a cretin?

Are you now going to make a poorly crafted Jew joke, or do you need me to do it for you?

[VinceZeb]

This woman committed no crime. She is an innocent victim of the harshness of life. She should not, however, be forced to lie there and be STARVED TO DEATH. If they felt sorry for her and her state, they would give her a drug that would put her in a coma-like state so she could die with some sense of dignity. The woman can regonize people and gives some reaction to stimuli, she is not a complete vegetable. This is euthansia by proxy, Max. She is being killed. What would the difference be by giving her some potassium chloride? Same result, with one that would be a lot less painful and humiliating.

[mburbank]

I would be all in favor of actively euthanising this woman with an overdoes of Morphine, which is a quite painles way to die. Unfortunately, the laws of Florida do not agree. While witholding life support is legal, active Euthanasia is not. I suggest you write their governor a letter. He's far more likely to listen to your pro euthanasia stnce than mine, what with you being a conservative republican with Liberatarian leanings.

I agree, it would be less painful, far more humane. It would also leave the doctor liable to be prosecuted for murder and the hospital open to civil action under current Florida law, which like many other states, is barbaric on this count.

Your initial title about our govt. loving to murder innocent people is somewhat off base. Generally speaking, our republican leadership endources prolonging lives as long as is medically possible, regardless of brain function or suffering. While they haven't achieved that goal, they have made physician assisted suicide almost impossible, even in states that allow it.

Teri Schiavo is 39 years old. Kept on a tube, she might easily live in her current condition for thirty more years or longer. I'm certain her husband wants her to suffering ended as quickly as possible. The legal system of Florida has delayed this for ten years, twice refusing to hear the case. You can be sure that as she starves, legal wrangling will continue. Your contention that she recognizes people and that her reaction to stimulai constitutes any sort of awareness beyond autonomic nervous activity contradicts what her medical team believes.

What are you advocating? A change in Florida Law to allow this poor woman to die painlessly, or continuing her life mechnically? Or do you suppose anyone on any side of this actually endoreses the idea of her starving? Do you think there are some folks out there who's position is "Yes, she should be allowed to die, but only through Starvation."

[glowbelly]

i bet your panties wouldn't be in such a bunch if the germans were just a bit more humane about euthanizing millions of your people.

(that one's a freebie, vince. you don't even have to credit me for it.)

[mburbank]

The joke is on both of you.

I am not wearing panties.

[glowbelly]

how about ruffling your feathers then? i'm sure such a chicken-poo liberal like yourself has a few of those we could mess with.

(i'm better at being vince than vince, which i guess really isn't saying much )

[kellychaos]

Wouldn't this fall somewhere in between euthanasia and failure to give aid ... as in passing a car accident and not calling 911, ect? I mean, you're not actively killing someone yet you're not giving them the utmost aid to ensure their survival. The closest example I can bring us is in that of some religious sects who frown on using modern medicine and leave a person's health up to the "will of God". Different motivation but with the same basic outcome. What, generally, have the courts decided in those cases?

[The One and Only...]

Wouldn't the tube be a bitch to pay for?

[Big Papa Goat]

Ya, what about broke ass homeless people who can't afford life support to begin with?

[AChimp]

Originally Posted by VinceZeb

They really don't know whether or not she wanted to die if in this condition.

Vinth, you have obviously never heard of a living will. When you have one of those, you can state that, in the event you become a vegetable, unplug and dump in the ground. Usually there's stipulations like "two doctors must agree on the unlikeliness of recovery."

In this situation, as article clearly states, the doctors are saying the reactions her parents are seeing are just reflexes.

[Immortal Goat]

Post subject: Nice to see our govt loves to murder innocent people...

I could have told you THAT, Vinth. Just look at Iraq!

In all seriousness, people who say that taking this feeding tube out and killing her is playing God don't know a damn thing about God. HAVING the feeding tube is playing God. If she would have died naturally because of her condition, then keeping her ALIVE is what is against God's will (not that I believe It cares too much about the petty affairs of human life, but oh well). Let her die naturally. I am SURE, that if Vinth were put in her situation, then he would say to pull the plug on him, too. There is NO CHANCE of her recovery, so WHY MAKE HER SUFFER?!


Oh, wait, I know why. Because Vinth is a heartless bastard. [/quote]

[kellychaos]

I don't understand why you align what would happen "naturally" as the "will of God". Aren't we humans, and all the comforts of civilization ultimately part of nature? Couldn't the human quest for knowledge, improvement, ect also be considered "the will of God". Therefore, isn't taking her off the machines, again, against the "will of God". Where do you draw the line in your definition?

[Immortal Goat]

Kelly, what I was doing was arguing against those that say it IS against God's will. Like I said, I do not think that God involves Itself in the petty actions of us humans. I think that taking the feeding tube out has nothing to do with God's will, because I don't think that God has some "Divine Plan" in which we are all destined to die from something specific at a specific time.

Back to the subject at hand. The husband has every right to take the tube out if there is absolutely no chance of her recovery. If she is suffering, and it is HER will to be unplugged, then by all means, end her life.

[The One and Only...]

[Carnivore]

I'm for killing in all of its forms. People are the source of all the problems in this world. The fewer people, the better!

I'm not people, though. I'm good people. There's a difference.

[Zhukov]

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/LAW/10/2...man/index.html
TALLAHASSEE, Florida (CNN) -- Florida Gov. Jeb Bush ordered a feeding tube reinserted into a brain-damaged woman Tuesday afternoon, less than two hours after the Legislature passed a bill allowing him to do so.

Florida lawmakers gave Bush the authority in an effort to keep Terri Schiavo alive nearly a week after the tube was removed at the request of her husband, Michael, effectively overturning a court ruling that she be allowed to die.

"Like the tens of thousands of Floridians who have raised their voices in support of Terri Schiavo's right to live, I have been deeply moved by these tragic circumstances," Bush said in a statement issued after he signed the bill. "My thoughts and prayers remain with Terri and those who love her."

Schiavo was being cared for at a hospice in Pinellas Park but was moved Tuesday evening to a hospital in Clearwater. An attorney for Schiavo's parents said lawyers at Morton Plant Hospital told them Schiavo was being rehydrated intravenously in preparation for reinsertion of her feeding tube, which will not happen immediately.

Late Tuesday, a Pinellas Circuit Court judge rejected a request from Michael Schiavo's lawyers for a temporary injunction against Bush's order. The judge gave the attorneys five days to file paperwork for a permanent injunction.

Schiavo's attorneys argue that the bill authorizing Bush to reinsert the tube was unconstitutional.

"It violates the separation of powers between the judicial and executive branches," attorney Debbie Bushnell said.

Earlier Tuesday, a judge in Clearwater had refused to issue a temporary restraining order that Michael Schiavo's attorneys had sought, saying the filing was made in the wrong jurisdiction.

The state Senate voted 23-15 on Tuesday to approve a measure allowing Bush to issue the one-time order. The tube was removed after a lengthy court battle between Terri Schiavo's husband and her parents, Bob and Mary Schindler.

The bill also allows a judge to appoint an independent guardian for Schiavo, taking away guardianship from her husband.

Outside the hospice, the crowd cheered and embraced after learning of Bush's signature.

"I don't know what to say," said Bob Schindler. "I thank the governor, I thank everybody in the Legislature. There's a lot of people up there who pulled together. It's just incredible, totally incredible.

"We've had a roller coaster ride. Hopefully, that's over now."

By a vote of 68-23, the GOP-controlled Florida House approved the bill late Monday.

The Schindlers had been publicly pressing Bush to intervene. He had expressed sympathy for their position but said he did not have the authority to countermand court orders allowing the tube to be removed.

Terry Schiavo, 39, has been in what doctors call a persistent vegetative state since suffering heart failure in 1990. Doctors said she is responsive but shows no significant cognitive ability, and that she was left in that condition when her heart failure cut the flow of oxygen to her brain, leaving it damaged.

Schiavo is not terminally ill, but because of her condition, she cannot feed herself, so the feeding tube provides her with nutrition and water.

She left no written instructions about her wishes should she be incapacitated, but Michael Schiavo said she made it clear before her collapse that she did not want to be sustained with life support.

"Some people do not agree with the decision the court made to remove this feeding tube. I struggle to accept it myself," Schiavo said in a statement late Monday. "But I know in my heart that it is right, and it is what Terri wants. There is no longer any realistic hope of Terri's recovery."

Her parents dispute that contention, insisting that despite her medical condition, she still responds to them and could improve with rehabilitative care.

Michael Schiavo collected more than $1 million in malpractice settlements stemming from his wife's collapse, but only about $50,000 of that settlement remains. The money has been frozen by the court.

The hospice is caring for Schiavo free of charge.

[AChimp]

I wonder if her parents are willing to shell out the clams for this "rehabilitative care."

Or, I know, maybe in 40 years there will be a cure for her, so she can live a long and full life once again.

[blackheart]

THE WOMAN HAS BEEN IN A COMA FOR A DECADE.

Everybody knows the longer you're in a coma, the longer you're suffering brain damage. Even if she "survives" she won't have the mental capacity beyond an infant or toddler.

Leftists aren't protesting this because this is clearly a right-wing move. A "right to life" sort of deal. Most leftists believe in death with dignity. Especially this case. It's not like the woman is going to magically get up and do a jig after her little ordeal.

This is old news, and it happens all the time. I think this whole situation is blown out of proportion, probably by the family, so they can get media attention. Take her off the life support; I think we should be worried more about the conscious instead of the brain-dead.

[AChimp]

They're looking for donations, that's why it's in the media.