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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Aug 10th, 2006, 08:49 AM        British police arrest 21 in airline terror plot
Another isolated criminal matter foiled. Book 'em, danno!

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/08/10/us.security/index.html

Security chief: Airline terror plot 'close to execution'

'We cannot be sure ... plot completely thwarted'

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Terrorists were in the final stages of planning to blow up planes heading from the United Kingdom to the United States, U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said Thursday.

The plans were "suggestive of an al Qaeda plot," he said.

British police said they had arrested 21 suspects in the plot to blow up passenger jets flying between the United Kingdom and the United States.

Alert levels were raised at U.S. and British airports and air travel across Europe and in the United States faced mass disruptions. (Watch what passengers must do at the world's busiest international airport -- 3:06)

The foiled plot was "intended to be mass murder on an unimaginable scale," London's Metropolitan Police Deputy Commissioner Paul Stephenson said.

The plot involved hiding masked liquid explosives and detonators in carry-on luggage, Chertoff said. ('Untold death and destruction' planned -- 2:37)

One government official said the terrorists had hoped to target flights to major airports in New York, Washington and California, all major summer tourist destinations.

Chertoff said the plotters were "getting close to the execution phase."

"There were very concrete steps under way to execute all elements of the plan," he said.

"They were not yet sitting on an airplane," but were very close to traveling, a senior U.S. counterterrorism official told The Associated Press.

A U.S. administration official said the terror plot targeted Continental, United, and American Airlines. It was not immediately clear whether other airlines also were involved.

British Home Secretary John Reid said the plotters planned loss of life on "an unprecedented scale."

Chertoff said the plan was reminiscent of a plot by 9/11 coordinator Khalid Shaikh Mohammed in 1999, who had envisioned detonating bombs on 11 airlines possibly traveling over the Pacific Ocean.

Britain's threat warning level has been raised to "critical" -- meaning an attack is expected imminently.

The U.S. threat level has been raised to the highest level of "severe," or red, for commercial flights originating in the United Kingdom bound for the United States, according to the Department of Homeland Security. (Full story)

In addition, the threat level has been raised to "high," or orange for all commercial flights operating in or coming to the United States, the DHS said.

The nation's overall terror threat level has not been altered.

Thursday was the first time the DHS has raised the threat level for a specific group of flights.

"Due to the nature of the threat revealed by this investigation, we are prohibiting any liquids, including beverages, hair gels, and lotions from being carried on the airplane," a DHS statement said.

While there is no indication of plotting within the United States, Chertoff issued a statement saying "we cannot be sure that the threat has been entirely eliminated or the plot completely thwarted."

That means airline passengers around the country should show up at least two hours early for all flights, an official with the Transportation Security Administration told CNN.

"Travelers should go about their plans confidently, while maintaining vigilance in their surroundings and exercising patience with screening and security officials," Chertoff said.

The alleged terror plot comes almost five years after Briton Richard Reid attempted to detonate explosives hidden in his sneakers on an American Airlines flight from Paris to Miami in December 2001, only a few months after the September 11, 2001 attacks in New York and Washington.

Passengers thwarted his plan, and the plane landed safely in Boston.

Reid pleaded guilty to terrorism charges in October 2002 and is serving a life sentence at the nation's super-maximum security prison in Florence, Colorado.

Security alert follows arrests
British and U.S. security agencies quickly moved to impose strict limits on carry-on items in the wake of Thursday's arrests, causing extended delays at airport security checkpoints. (Full story)

The British Airports Authority said no hand luggage would be allowed onto planes leaving British airports until further notice.

British Airways canceled all shorthaul flights in or out of Heathrow Airport for Thursday, and delays were stacking flights up at airports across Europe. (Full story)

Stephenson said 21 people were arrested by London, Birmingham and Thames Valley police overnight in an ongoing operation.

"This is about people who are desperate ... who want to do things that no right-minded citizen of this country or any other country would want to tolerate," Stephenson said.

The arrests were the result of a "covert counter-terrorist operation," police said. "It is believed that the aim was to detonate explosive devices smuggled on board the aircraft in hand luggage."

Home Secretary Reid said: "We are doing everything possible to disrupt any other terrorist activity. This will mean major disruptions from all UK airports."

Copyright 2006 CNN. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. Associated Press contributed to this report.
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Old Aug 10th, 2006, 05:56 PM       
Kev, in specific regards the last two paragraphs, do you think this cop just daft, or what?


http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/cri...cle1218218.ece

Here is a text of the statement by Deputy Commissioner Paul Stephenson of Scotland Yard as delivered.

He said: "We are confident that we have disrupted a plan by terrorists to cause untold death and destruction and to commit, quite frankly, mass murder.

"I would want to join the commissioner who is fully briefed and has been here at New Scotland Yard since very early this morning in paying tribute to the Met's counter terrorist branch and the Security Services for the work that they have undertaken in disrupting these activities.

"We believe that the terrorists' aim was to smuggle explosives onto aeroplanes in hand luggage and to detonate these in flight.

"We also believe that the intended targets were flights from the United Kingdom to the United States of America.

"I can confirm that a significant number of people are currently in custody and the operation is ongoing.

"The majority of those arrests have been here in London, but we have also made arrests in Thames Valley and in Birmingham and of course I am very grateful for the support our colleagues have shown in backing up this operation, and showing their leadership in those forces.

"We are currently searching a number of addresses and Deputy Assistant Commissioner Peter Clarke, head of the anti-terrorist branch - who is known to many of you - will give a further details about the investigation later this morning.

"As the operation got under way we spoke to a good number of community leaders to make them aware that a major anti-terrorist operation was under way but without giving specific details about locations.

"This extensive dialogue will continue.

"We would like to reassure the public that this operation was carried out with public safety upper-most in our minds.

"This is a major operation, which will inevitably be lengthy and complex.

"The United Kingdom is now at the highest possible level of alert.

"We will consider the threat in its wider sense and take whatever action is necessary to protect people here in London and right the way throughout the United Kingdom.

"Measures have already been put in place to restrict hand luggage taken onto aircraft. This will inevitably cause very significant delays and I know it is doing that as we speak here. We ask for people's continued help and patience at these very difficult times.

"We are genuinely looking to the public to remain calm, patient and vigilant

"But we cannot stress too highly the severity that this plot represented.

"Put simply this was intended to be mass murder on an unimaginable scale."

In a question-and-answer session immediately after the statement he said that 21 people were currently in custody.

He added: "The operation is ongoing, we have been very successful in arresting those we were targeting, this is a lengthy investigation and no doubt there will be further developments."

He added: "This is an operation that's been going on for some considerable time and we moved in because we thought it was the right thing to do in terms of reducing and minimising crime to the public.

He would not discuss how many planes police believe were being targeted in the alleged plot, only saying "that is something the operation will continue to investigate."

"This is not about communities, this is about criminals, murderers, people who want to commit mass murder, this is not about anything to do with any particular community.

"This is about people who might masquerade within the community behind certain faiths... this is about people - desperate, desperate people - who want to do things that no right minded citizen of this country, or any other country, would want to tolerate."
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Old Aug 10th, 2006, 10:53 PM       
Huh? What's your point?
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Old Aug 11th, 2006, 12:46 AM       
The Christian white milita must be stopped.
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Old Aug 11th, 2006, 08:40 AM       
How do we know how desperate these people are?

Are you honestly going to try to argue that over 20 men, most of whom are in their twenties and muslim, weren't linked by a certain "community"? We don't know too much about these people yet, but we do know that some of them have been devout muslims, and others are very recent converts. Do we ignore that?

It amazes me that after a plot to kill many innocent people (mostly Americans and Brits) is uncovered, your primary concern is still about not hurting anyone's feelings.

It has been said here before, and I'll say it again-- there is a discussion to be had, IMO, about who the "true" followers of Islam really are. is it the moderates, or is it the 21 who hoped to kill a bunch of Crusader infidels....?

But that aside, it doesn't necessarily have to matter. Ziggy, if you believe that 99.9% of all muslims are a peace loving bunch who just want to live their lives and worship their god, well then I'll believe you. I want to believe it, too.

But that doesn't mean we should strip the religion from these crimes. if we do that, we do a disservice to ourselves, because if we really want to figure these folks out and stop them we'll need to know what motivates them, why they're doing it, how they're doing it, and how we can stop them.
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Old Aug 11th, 2006, 03:18 PM       
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...307863,00.html

The first step towards defeating the terrorists: stop blaming ourselves

Gerard Baker

THERE’S A familiar ritual each time an operation to thwart a putative terrorist incident dominates the news. After the public’s initial expressions of relief and shuddering contemplation of what might have been, a rising chorus of sceptics takes over, with a string of questions and hypotheses.
Was it really a serious terrorist plot, or only a bunch of misguided, alienated Muslim kids larking about with a chemistry set and a mobile phone? Sometimes, unfortunately, as with this summer’s ludicrously overplayed Miami “plot” to blow up buildings in Chicago, in which the plotters had got as far as purchasing some boots but not much else, overzealous authorities bring this sort of suspicion on themselves. But you can guarantee that every incident now, whatever the evidence, will be treated with such derisive doubt. If the police had got to the 9/11 hijackers or the 7/7 bombers in time, a sizeable chunk of respectable opinion would have dismissed them as idealistic young men with no real capacity or intent to cause harm.



The scepticism is then embellished by the conspiracy-as-diversion theory. How convenient, cluck the doubters, with rolled eyes and theatrical sarcasm, just as the Government’s got some new bonfire of civil liberties planned; or just as President Bush’s poll numbers are collapsing; or just as Israel is stepping up its ground attacks in southern Lebanon.

Then, of course, whether real or imaginary or government-authored, the cynics will say the plot inevitably has its roots in our own culpability. If we hadn’t invaded Iraq, if Tony Blair weren’t George Bush’s agent of oil-fuelled imperialism, if Israel weren’t killing innocents in Lebanon, this wouldn’t have happened.

It is a neatly comprehensive schema of cynicism. If the plot turns out to be a damp squib, or the police have made some ghastly error, the sceptics will triumphantly claim that it was deliberately overdone to scare us. If the plot is real, or God forbid, as with 9/11 or 7/7 it isn’t foiled in time, then they can switch seamlessly to the claim that we’ve only ourselves to blame.

In this internally pure worldview, the consistent theme is denial— denial of the reality of the mortal threat we face, denial of the reasons we face it. The villain for these people is not the jihadist, with his agenda of destroying our very way of life. It is, as it has always been, that malign continuum of institutions of our own authority that begins with the aggressive police officer and goes all the way up via the credulous media and craven officials to No 10 and the White House.

It’s too early to say with any confidence yet, but it looks as though yesterday’s plot to blow up US-bound aircraft from the UK was closer to the 9/11 tragedy than the Miami-Chicago farce. If the police and intelligence authorities have succeeded in foiling such a murderous plan, the correct response is one of immense gratitude to them, pride in our security institutions and continued vigilance against future plots.

But we should also remember that our continuing existence lies not just in inconvenient security measures and uncomfortably intrusive intelligence activities, but in a grand global strategy. Success requires, in addition to the tiresome banalities of long check-in queues and tighter limits on hand luggage, a commitment, whatever the costs, to eradicate the deep global political causes that threaten us.

And for this it just won’t do to claim it’s all about bad US foreign policy. It is repetitive but necessary to point out that we didn’t start this war when we invaded Iraq. The attacks on 9/11 were planned not only before we invaded, but during a time when the US was expending extraordinary effort to try to forge a lasting settlement between Israel and the Palestinians.

And if our actions have radicalised the jihadists we should remember that they are animated at least as much by our ridding Afghanistan of their spiritual brethren, the Taleban, as they are by whatever crimes the US may have committed in Baghdad.

The same applies to Israel and Lebanon. Not only is the current war the direct result of Hezbollah’s aggression, its deeper causes lie in the continued determination of Israel’s enemies, increasingly emboldened by Tehran, to liquidate the Jewish state.

Few can look at events in Iraq or Lebanon today with optimism, but it would be dangerous folly to assume, as some do, that the West should retreat, beating its breast and promising never to offend again.

Events such as yesterday’s near-miss should remind us that September 11, 2001, gave birth to a radical and dangerous new world. It required the US — an imperfect country to be sure, but the only one with the power and the will to defend the basic freedoms we too easily take for granted — with its allies to remake the international system. It provided a terrifying harbinger of much larger atrocities to come, when terrorists and their state supporters get hold of weapons with which they can kill millions, not thousands. This new enemy is not like old enemies. It is fundamentalist and suicidal and apocalyptic. The old system, rooted in a liberal philosophy that relied on patient diplomacy and made a virtue of being slow to respond to attacks, was unequal to this new challenge. The new system required rapid action to open up the Middle East, the festering root of all these threats to modernity.

I will grant you that the Iraq war has been characterised, in conception and execution, by blunder after blunder. And it is certainly possible that, in their failures there, the US and Britain have made the world more unstable, not less. But we should not, in our frustration, confuse the real enemies here. We should not mistake the unlooked-for dangers caused by blunders and arrogance in Washington for the targeted threats posed by nihilism and hatred in much of the Middle East, and in some of our own cities.

Yesterday provided us with yet another glimpse of the awful reality of our long war and associated miseries. We must be very careful not to ascribe their creation to our own errors.
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Old Aug 12th, 2006, 02:39 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinTheOmnivore
Huh? What's your point?
What's his point? What's yours?

You're either incredibly dense, or you're too busy trying to win arguements to talk like a normal person.

So nevermind.
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Old Aug 12th, 2006, 04:55 PM       
Ok bud, except that I responded directly to it in my previous post.

Tell me something, if none of this is related to any specific "community", or some pc bullshit like that, why is it that the airline operation has been linked to Jaish, the same Islamic militant assholes who blow shit up in Kashmir and india...?

What could possibly bind a group of men and women, spanning different economic backgrounds, as well as nationalities, to attempt such a vile act? Is it "oppression"? How oppressed are the British muslims?

This is about Islam, no matter how much your ostrich syndrome prevents you from realizing it.
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Old Aug 13th, 2006, 01:37 PM       
so in other words, "yes, that cop is just daft"

thanks.
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Old Aug 13th, 2006, 02:10 PM       
Clearly, if that cop says otherwise, we should consider this to be devoid of any islamic elements.
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Old Aug 13th, 2006, 04:19 PM       
you're so right. we should focus all our efforts on studying islam in order to unravel terror plots.

how could i have been so blind?
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Old Aug 13th, 2006, 05:32 PM       
Don't beat yourself up over it, it happens.
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Old Aug 14th, 2006, 08:46 AM       
Quote:
"This is not about communities, this is about criminals, murderers, people who want to commit mass murder, this is not about anything to do with any particular community.
Of course it is about people so fucking stupid that they believe they live on a planet six thousand years old, where women came into being when this god character fashioned her from a spare rib (not to be confused with the food so favored by American negroes)which apparently turned out to be a mistake in light of her later shenanigans with a talking snake.

Not, of course, that I have gained new respect for "our" side. If, for example, the Justice Department called me today and said, "Well, we've decided to arrest the current administration and put them to death, but only if you will fly out to the federal penitentiary and actually flip the switch yourself," I wouldn't be posting this. I'd be on Ebay looking for a ticket to Leavenworth, Kansas.
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Old Aug 14th, 2006, 08:50 AM       
you can't buy airplane tickets on ebay, what the hell

you're such a goofball
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Old Aug 14th, 2006, 08:52 AM       
i mean craigslist, maybe, but ebay? sheesh
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Old Aug 14th, 2006, 09:21 AM       
I thought someone told me employees were somehow able to sell their discounted "standby" fares and were doing it on Ebay.
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Old Aug 15th, 2006, 07:57 PM       
Hey Ziggy, check out Azzam Tamimi on Tucker Carlson's show: LINK

Not only does this guy object to the Islamic association in this whole mess, buthe thinks it's all a hoax! What do you think?
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Old Aug 20th, 2006, 10:56 AM       
"This is about people who might masquerade within the community behind certain faiths... this is about people - desperate, desperate people - who want to do things that no right minded citizen of this country, or any other country, would want to tolerate."

Hey Ziggy, check out the speakers who were at ExpoIslamia in Manchester. The purpose of this event was to "present
Islam to Muslims, non-Muslims in clearest form."

Here are some great snips from this "moderate" event:

Quote:
A second speaker is Yvonne Ridley, a former British journalist who converted to Islam 30 months after being captured by the Taliban in Afghanistan. She also sits on the national council of Respect, a UK political party, and stood as a Respect candidate in the last general election.

"[Respect] is a Zionist-free party," she declared at a meeting earlier this year. "If there was any Zionism in the Respect Party, they would be hunted down and kicked out. We have no time for Zionists."

She criticized government support "towards that disgusting little watchdog of America that is festering in the Middle East" and promised that a Respect victory would mean the raising of the Palestinian flag in the UK.
Quote:
The most controversial speaker, by far, at today's conference is Azzam Tamimi, who has condemned unequivocally the London bombings of July 7, 2005, but who praises suicide bombers in Israel – even to the point of saying he would like to be one.

In 2004, while a guest on the BBC's "Hard Talk," Tamimi, who is director of the London-based Institute of Islamic Political Thought, was challenged over his praise of suicide bombers.

"Why, if it is so glorious and honourable to do this, why don't you do it?" asked the interviewer.

"If I have the opportunity I would do it," Tamimi, who was born in Hebron, answered. "If I can go to Palestine and sacrifice myself, I would do it.

"Why not? You see, sacrificing myself for Palestine is a noble cause. It is the straight way to pleasing my God and I would do it if I had the opportunity," he said.

A video of a recent street rally, following the outbreak of fighting between Hezbollah and Israel, shows Tamimi denouncing Israel.

"Anyone in the world ... must come together in order to eradicate this cancer from the body of humanity. ... We are ever grateful to the late imam Khomeni for starting this occasion. ... [Bush and Blair] are worried that this spoiled baby of theirs is about to be thrown out of this human body of ours. It's just a matter of time. You count my words. ... If they don't want peace, we have another language. We have another language and we have every right to use that language. And time will tell, and history will tell. Allah akbar!"
So, uh, how desperate are these people? I think the important question here is how can we blame ourselves for this bigotry and ignorance....?
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