Go Back   I-Mockery Forum > I-Mockery Discussion Forums > Philosophy, Politics, and News
FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
Mocker
KevinTheOmnivore's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY
KevinTheOmnivore is probably a spambot
Old Dec 23rd, 2003, 11:29 AM        Nader Rejects Green Party Backing
The funny thing is, I'm more inclined I think to support a Nader independent campaign than any clown the Greens now decide to put up (and I promise you, if any, they will be a clown). Although, this does make me a bit irritated with Nader. This, IMO, may be his own cowardly way of not running at all, and steping back for his buddy Dennis Kucinich (as if that gravy train is going anywhere....right, delegates get to write the party platform, blah blah).

Oh, and I can't stand Ben Manski.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2003Dec22.html

Nader Rejects Green Party Backing
Run for Presidency Still Possible as Independent Candidate

By Edward Walsh
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, December 23, 2003; Page A05

Ralph Nader, whose 2000 campaign many Democrats believe cost former vice
president Al Gore the presidency, has decided not to run for president next
year as the candidate of the Green Party but is still contemplating a
presidential race as an independent, a Nader associate said yesterday.

Ross Mirkarimi, who ran Nader's presidential campaign in California, said
Nader recently called him to announce his intentions and is in the process
of informing national Green Party officials that he will not be their
standard-bearer in 2004.

"My understanding is that, if Nader runs, he does not want to run a mediocre
campaign, and he is trying to assess the political and resource variables on
how he would run the most serious campaign possible to unseat George Bush,"
Mirkarimi said. He said there appears to be "no consensus" within the Green
Party over its approach to the 2004 campaign.

Ben Manski, a co-chairman and spokesman for the Green Party, confirmed last
night that Nader will not seek the party's presidential nomination. Manski
said it was not clear to him why Nader had made that decision.

"What is clear is that the nomination of the Green Party was certainly
something he had an excellent chance of securing, and I think this is a
serious mistake on his part," he said. "If he does choose to run as an
independent, his candidacy will be seriously weakened from what it would
have been had he chosen to seek the Green Party nomination."

The divisions within the party were evident at a national meeting in July.
The meeting was closed to the news media, but participants said it centered
on party strategy in 2004.

Those present divided themselves into three groups: Those who wanted to run
the strongest possible campaign throughout the country, those who wanted to
run only in those areas where the Green Party candidate would not be a
threat to cost the Democratic Party nominee electoral votes in the contest
with Bush, and those who wanted to skip the 2004 campaign entirely and throw
Green Party support behind the Democratic nominee.

Participants said the overwhelming majority present favored running a strong
candidate nationally in 2004, but some in the party strongly disagree with
that view and believe the party's top priority next year should be the
defeat of Bush.

The division reflects, in part, the extraordinarily close outcome of the
2000 election. Nader, nationally known because of his work as a consumer
advocate, won almost 3 million votes as the Green Party candidate -- four
times as many as he received in 1996, when he first ran for president.

Many Democrats believe the bulk of Nader's voters would have supported Gore
if the Green Party candidate was not a third alternative, and that this cost
Gore, who won the popular vote in 2000, the electoral votes he needed to win
the White House. In Florida, which decided the election after the Supreme
Court halted a vote recount, Bush defeated Gore by 537 votes. Nader won
97,488 votes in Florida.
###
Reply With Quote
  #2  
KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
Mocker
KevinTheOmnivore's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY
KevinTheOmnivore is probably a spambot
Old Dec 23rd, 2003, 11:51 AM       
****UPDATE!!!****

"Insiders" tell me that this may be Nader's coy, cute little way of "accepting" the nomination, rather than pursuing it. Either way, he's a wanker. That is all.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
The One and Only... The One and Only... is offline
Mocker
The One and Only...'s Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Harlem
The One and Only... is probably a spambot
Old Dec 23rd, 2003, 12:05 PM       
YES!!!
__________________
I have seen all things that are done under the sun; all is vanity and a chase after wind.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
Mocker
KevinTheOmnivore's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY
KevinTheOmnivore is probably a spambot
Old Dec 23rd, 2003, 12:11 PM       
Why you would be excited is beyond me. In 2000, Nader not only brought attention to himself, but to all third-party candidates who were lobbying to get into the debates, get more media coverage, etc.

He was the most high profile on the Left. This year, with the focus being getting Bush out, the Democratic candidate will take that thunder. On the other side, Bush is tremendously popular. Whether or not he's a perfect ideological fit, he wins. People like to win, and vote for a winner. The Pat Buchanans and Harry Brownes (to a MUCH lesser extent) rode the coat tails of Nader. With no prominent "spoiler" candidate, your party will languish for yet another 4 years in obscurity, falling waaaay short of federal matching funds. Sorry, bubba.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
The One and Only... The One and Only... is offline
Mocker
The One and Only...'s Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Harlem
The One and Only... is probably a spambot
Old Dec 23rd, 2003, 12:30 PM       
Please, don't make me laugh. The Republicans are going to win this race easily, particularly now that market is going to go heavily bull in 2004. You should know, I know, Bush knows it.

Granted, that has more to do with the Federal Reserve than the Bush tax cuts, but voters tend to vote in a fairly dumb manner when it comes to the economy.

We all know that the middle class will sway right-wing, since it is the Republicans who are protecting marriage, ousted a dictator, and stood up against challenges that arose from 9/11 - not to mention slashing taxes a little.

The elderly will go Rep thanks to that fact that they actually passed a change to Medicare, something that the Dems have talked about but never followed up on.

Outside of minorities, the poor are going to be devisive since Bush has increased government funding in areas relevant to them.

The rich, obviously, will vote Republican.

All that aside, I'd like to think that Libertarians will pick up a little this year and possibly cause the Republicans to lose now that the Greens are gone, but I know that is just unrealistic.
__________________
I have seen all things that are done under the sun; all is vanity and a chase after wind.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Protoclown Protoclown is offline
The Goddamned Batman
Protoclown's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Richmond, VA
Protoclown is probably a spambot
Old Dec 23rd, 2003, 12:31 PM       
HEY, STUPID! THE ELECTION IS ALMOST A YEAR AWAY! NOT TOMORROW!
__________________
"It's like I'm livin' in a stinkin' poop rainbow." - Cordelia Burbank
Reply With Quote
  #7  
KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
Mocker
KevinTheOmnivore's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY
KevinTheOmnivore is probably a spambot
Old Dec 23rd, 2003, 12:37 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by The One and Only...
Please, don't make me laugh. The Republicans are going to win this race easily, particularly now that market is going to go heavily bull in 2004. You should know, I know, Bush knows it.
Irrelevant, yet slightly reinforcing my argument against you. Swell, thanks!!

Quote:
The elderly will go Rep thanks to that fact that they actually passed a change to Medicare, something that the Dems have talked about but never followed up on.
Except for the fact that those elderly who actually vote, the white-upper/middle class, baby boomers, are getting screwed by this new medicare deal, and it's actually helping some lower-income, minorities, who vote less. Most recent polling data shows that the elderly don't even understand the new bill, and many people have since left AARP in disgust with it. Anyway, this is a digression from the point....


Quote:
All that aside, I'd like to think that Libertarians will pick up a little this year and possibly cause the Republicans to lose now that the Greens are gone, but I know that is just unrealistic.
It is, none of that will happen. And your assumption that everyone, including pets, will vote Republican is equally naive.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Protoclown Protoclown is offline
The Goddamned Batman
Protoclown's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Richmond, VA
Protoclown is probably a spambot
Old Dec 23rd, 2003, 12:51 PM       
While One Size Fits All was too busy looking into his crystal ball to notice the real world, he was forgetting that the majority of us didn't vote for Bush in the last election, that the first Gulf War didn't save his daddy when election time came around, and most importantly, A YEAR IS A FUCKING LONG TIME. We're talking about a QUARTER of his term that hasn't even happened yet. He can gain or lose a LOT of support in the coming months.
__________________
"It's like I'm livin' in a stinkin' poop rainbow." - Cordelia Burbank
Reply With Quote
  #9  
The One and Only... The One and Only... is offline
Mocker
The One and Only...'s Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Harlem
The One and Only... is probably a spambot
Old Dec 23rd, 2003, 12:52 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinTheHerbivore
Irrelevant, yet slightly reinforcing my argument against you. Swell, thanks!!
A bull market is a strong, powerful market. That doesn't go in your favor.

Quote:
Except for the fact that those elderly who actually vote, the white-upper/middle class, baby boomers, are getting screwed by this new medicare deal, and it's actually helping some lower-income, minorities, who vote less. Most recent polling data shows that the elderly don't even understand the new bill, and many people have since left AARP in disgust with it. Anyway, this is a digression from the point....
I think you'll find that the Reps have still secured the vote.


Quote:
It is, none of that will happen. And your assumption that everyone, including pets, will vote Republican is equally naive.
Oh, it will happen before my death. Whether or not you realize it, our nation is getting more and more in favor of libertarianism every day. Populists are dead.
__________________
I have seen all things that are done under the sun; all is vanity and a chase after wind.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Protoclown Protoclown is offline
The Goddamned Batman
Protoclown's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Richmond, VA
Protoclown is probably a spambot
Old Dec 23rd, 2003, 12:59 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by The One and Only...
Oh, it will happen before my death.
There you go with the crystal ball again. You know how long your life is going to be. Where did you get such a wonderful device of prescient knowledge?
__________________
"It's like I'm livin' in a stinkin' poop rainbow." - Cordelia Burbank
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Miss Modular Miss Modular is offline
Little Monster
Miss Modular's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Haus of Gaga
Miss Modular is probably a spambot
Old Dec 23rd, 2003, 01:00 PM       
No Nader=No Dean.

Seriously, if Nader hadn't run the campaign he did in 2000, Howard Dean (and maybe Dennis Kucinich, for that matter) wouldn't be running right now, IMO.
__________________
Live From New York, It's Saturday Night!!!: http://notready4primetime.wordpress.com/
Reply With Quote
  #12  
KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
Mocker
KevinTheOmnivore's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY
KevinTheOmnivore is probably a spambot
Old Dec 23rd, 2003, 01:08 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by The One and Only...
I think you'll find that the Reps have still secured the vote.
Working for Zogby these days....?


Quote:
Quote:
It is, none of that will happen. And your assumption that everyone, including pets, will vote Republican is equally naive.
Oh, it will happen before my death. Whether or not you realize it, our nation is getting more and more in favor of libertarianism every day. Populists are dead.
And upon what do you base these claims???

Mod, very good point.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
The One and Only... The One and Only... is offline
Mocker
The One and Only...'s Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Harlem
The One and Only... is probably a spambot
Old Dec 23rd, 2003, 01:57 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protoclown
There you go with the crystal ball again. You know how long your life is going to be. Where did you get such a wonderful device of prescient knowledge?
I like to call it probability theory. You may find it of interest one day.

The world has been getting more libertarian consistently. Did you miss the neoliberal revolution, or what?
__________________
I have seen all things that are done under the sun; all is vanity and a chase after wind.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
ranxer ranxer is offline
Member
ranxer's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: U$
ranxer is probably a spambot
Old Dec 23rd, 2003, 02:44 PM       
i havnt been following greens enough to understand what nader is thinking, but i did hear that he said he's going to run if kucinich doesnt get the dem ticket.

regarding election predictions and oao's crystal ball, i don't think bush will win because of anything he has done.. actually i think bush's efforts have hurt his chance for re-election. as many have said the country is better off when he's on vacation.
he may win because many of us lefties can't support any of the democrats besides kucinich.. that is the left that supported nader.. unless nader starts pulling off some major headlines i'm campaigning for kucinich even after the dems put someone else up against bush.

like ive been saying for a long time.. if we can't have the best.. lets have the worst so the revolution comes sooner. not that i wish bush's policies on anyone mind you.

plus i won't have to throw out all my impeach bush investments if he's reselected.
__________________
the neo-capitalists believe in privatizing profits and socializing losses
Reply With Quote
  #15  
KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
Mocker
KevinTheOmnivore's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY
KevinTheOmnivore is probably a spambot
Old Dec 23rd, 2003, 04:33 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by The One and Only...
The world has been getting more libertarian consistently. Did you miss the neoliberal revolution, or what?
Woah, what about the Milky Way!!??? Let's not forget the entire known and unknown universe, okay!??

And are you saying that neo-liberalism is the opposite of populism, or that populism is somehow contrary to small government, lower taxation movements...? If so, your understanding of our political history is limited.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranxer
i havnt been following greens enough to understand what nader is thinking, but i did hear that he said he's going to run if kucinich doesnt get the dem ticket.
Maybe, maybe not. The word I've been hearig is that Kucinich will stay in the thing until the very end, to the point that they kick him out. The candidate will be all but official by the first few primary/caucus meetings, but the other Dem. candidates can "technically" run up until the convention. Those candidates send delegates. Those delegates assist in writing the Party platform for the next four years. Some think this is Kucinich's plan, hoping that all the other candidates will have long dropped out, leaving an abundance of Dean and Kucinich delegates at the convention. This seems like a victory to some in Kucinich land, having the opportunity to put a Leftist issue or two on the platform (I have trouble believing it to be significant at al, but whatever). So Kucinich will be in it for the proverbial long haul, so Nader may never blossom, unless of course he realizes and gets frustrated with Kucinich's "change the party internally" plan.

Quote:
like ive been saying for a long time.. if we can't have the best.. lets have the worst so the revolution comes sooner. not that i wish bush's policies on anyone mind you.
People went for this argument in 2000, but I don't think they're buying it after actually living through four years, two wars, etc. with the real deal....
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Protoclown Protoclown is offline
The Goddamned Batman
Protoclown's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Richmond, VA
Protoclown is probably a spambot
Old Dec 23rd, 2003, 05:49 PM       
OH MY GOD, ONE AND TWO AND FOUR, YOU ARE SUCH A DORK.
__________________
"It's like I'm livin' in a stinkin' poop rainbow." - Cordelia Burbank
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Ronnie Raygun Ronnie Raygun is offline
Senior Member
Ronnie Raygun's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Atlanta, Georgia United States of America
Ronnie Raygun is probably a spambot
Old Dec 23rd, 2003, 07:56 PM       
Nadar is all the green party ever had.

Even the Libertarian Party has more sway.
__________________
Paint your genitals red and black, weedwack the hair off your grandmothers back" - Sean Conlin from Estragon
Reply With Quote
  #18  
KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
Mocker
KevinTheOmnivore's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY
KevinTheOmnivore is probably a spambot
Old Dec 23rd, 2003, 08:23 PM       
That's why Harry Browne always does so well.....not forgetting how the LP inflates their national office holders, lauding victories in non-partisan races and appointments to water department boards, school boards, etc. But I digress.....

This is a blow to the Greens, no doubt, but it's equally naive on Nader's part. I don't believe this "independent run" wil ever happen, IMO, this is merely his way of retiring. I may be wrong, but I dunno.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Ronnie Raygun Ronnie Raygun is offline
Senior Member
Ronnie Raygun's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Atlanta, Georgia United States of America
Ronnie Raygun is probably a spambot
Old Dec 23rd, 2003, 08:42 PM       
Kevin, I think you're getting too worked up over it. It doesn't really matter anyway.
__________________
Paint your genitals red and black, weedwack the hair off your grandmothers back" - Sean Conlin from Estragon
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Jeanette X Jeanette X is offline
Queen of the Beasts
Jeanette X's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: in my burrow
Jeanette X is probably a spambot
Old Dec 23rd, 2003, 08:47 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Raygun
It doesn't really matter anyway.
No...I guess not.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
Mocker
KevinTheOmnivore's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY
KevinTheOmnivore is probably a spambot
Old Dec 23rd, 2003, 08:49 PM       
Nader clearly mattered last time, and were he to run a competent campaign, could hurt the Democrats again. You being a Republican Party cheerleader first, and a conservative second, is quite clear in your arrogance over this coming election.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Ronnie Raygun Ronnie Raygun is offline
Senior Member
Ronnie Raygun's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Atlanta, Georgia United States of America
Ronnie Raygun is probably a spambot
Old Dec 23rd, 2003, 08:55 PM       
Liberals are not going to make that mistake again. You know that.

I'm not being arrogant. I just think that Nadar has given up because he knows it too.

All liberals will have to stand together if they are to have any chance against Bush.
__________________
Paint your genitals red and black, weedwack the hair off your grandmothers back" - Sean Conlin from Estragon
Reply With Quote
  #23  
KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
Mocker
KevinTheOmnivore's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY
KevinTheOmnivore is probably a spambot
Old Dec 23rd, 2003, 09:14 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Raygun
Liberals are not going to make that mistake again. You know that.
"Liberals" hardly made up the bulk of the Nader/Green constituency, and a lot of them will never vote the lesser of two evils, EVER.

I'll agree, if Dean is the candidate, it's pointless. But four years of a Bush administration tends to do that to people.....getting Bush out is their priority.

Quote:
I'm not being arrogant. I just think that Nadar has given up because he knows it too.
No, it's not that simple (read above). Nader is very good at pointing out the inconsistencies of the Dean campaign. Others would follow that nod. Nader doesn't want to hinder the efforts of the Kucinich campaign, which I have mentioned above.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
The One and Only... The One and Only... is offline
Mocker
The One and Only...'s Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Harlem
The One and Only... is probably a spambot
Old Dec 23rd, 2003, 09:45 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinTheHerbivore
Woah, what about the Milky Way!!??? Let's not forget the entire known and unknown universe, okay!??

And are you saying that neo-liberalism is the opposite of populism, or that populism is somehow contrary to small government, lower taxation movements...? If so, your understanding of our political history is limited.
Okay... exactly how do you define populism and neo-liberalism? Because to my knowledge, neo-liberalism is an extremely pro-market doctrine that goes hand-in-hand with libertarianism, and populism has always favored public schools, roads, etc.
__________________
I have seen all things that are done under the sun; all is vanity and a chase after wind.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Brandon Brandon is offline
The Center Square
Brandon's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Migrant worker
Brandon is probably a spambot
Old Dec 23rd, 2003, 10:58 PM       
ENOUGH OF THIS JIBBER-JABBER. I WANT TO TALK ABOUT LIBERTARIANISM!
Reply With Quote
Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

   


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:50 AM.


© 2008 I-Mockery.com
Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.