Go Back   I-Mockery Forum > I-Mockery Discussion Forums > Philosophy, Politics, and News
FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
george george is offline
i will let you down
george's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: MARYLAND
george is probably pretty okgeorge is probably pretty okgeorge is probably pretty ok
Old Aug 5th, 2003, 09:39 PM        finding god
ok, i have been a hard core atheist for a long time. i make no bones about my distaste for religon and all the phony piousness that it entails.

but recently i had a revelation of sorts. i will not try to explain it (a lot of it involves some internal logic that would really only make sense to me, and would take a whole thread of it's own), more than to say i sort of had a moment of clarity that answered all my doubts, and now i am firmly in the "has faith" camp.

but, this is not to say that i accept RELIGON. my view was altered as to the nature of God and the universe, not towards the church. i have found a pleasent little church to go to, and it has made me happier, but i still reject a lot of the intepretation they have of the bible and morality.

so, i guess the question i am working towards here is wether or not you can truly believe in god and reject the philosophy of the church. isnt it sort of like voodoo if you pick and choose the parts you want to believe so that eveything fits your worldview? or is my faith just as valid because i came to my faith by questioning and doubting until i came to an answer that suited ME?
__________________
tax collectors, fishermen and whores, baby.
i am super humble, and better than bacon
doctorboogie fanclub member #1
@jorgedomingo on twitter.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
jin jin is offline
LIVE @ THE GHETTO HILTON!
jin's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: MURDER GOD.
jin is probably a spambot
Old Aug 5th, 2003, 09:48 PM       
Religion is like anything in life, you will end up choosing and picking out the parts that fit into your own interpretations simply because of natural human bias and ego.

It may be better that you do this by choice rather than try to believe that you are following the TRUE religion, because after all, all the ceremonies and interpretations and themes were all created or modified by people and their own personal visions.

Thats why there are so many churches, cults, segments and variations of the church.

There is no true be all and end all church, and whatever helps you to live a life which is correct and good to yourself, and helps you deal with problems is what you need.

Ps. sorry if this is all a bit muddled, i just woke up. :/
__________________
I sell fire in Hell.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Miss Modular Miss Modular is offline
Little Monster
Miss Modular's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Haus of Gaga
Miss Modular is probably a spambot
Old Aug 5th, 2003, 09:50 PM        Re: finding god
Quote:
Originally Posted by george
so, i guess the question i am working towards here is wether or not you can truly believe in god and reject the philosophy of the church. isnt it sort of like voodoo if you pick and choose the parts you want to believe so that eveything fits your worldview?
George, I've run by that MO since adolescence. I really don't care for my church's dogma, but I can't help but think there's something out there powering my destiny. Whatever it is, I call it "God".
__________________
Live From New York, It's Saturday Night!!!: http://notready4primetime.wordpress.com/
Reply With Quote
  #4  
punkgrrrlie10 punkgrrrlie10 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
punkgrrrlie10 is probably a spambot
Old Aug 5th, 2003, 09:53 PM       
I follow a same type of ideal. I learn about faith, and use my own logic as to what I think is right. The bible was written by men and men are fallible. If something seems inconsistent with me, I don't believe it then. Of course, I don't try to push my ideals on anyone else, b/c realizing that people can be wrong, I know I could be too. And sending someone to an eternity in hell would just be too much of a guilt trip for me, and blindly following someone else's interpretation may send me to hell. So basically I just take responsibility for my own faith.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
AChimp AChimp is offline
Resident Chimp
AChimp's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: The Jungles of Borneo
AChimp is probably a real personAChimp is probably a real person
Old Aug 5th, 2003, 10:03 PM       
I bet there's snakes at this church that George is going to...
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Jeanette X Jeanette X is offline
Queen of the Beasts
Jeanette X's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: in my burrow
Jeanette X is probably a spambot
Old Aug 5th, 2003, 10:12 PM       
This is one of the reasons why I am a reform Jew. They allow for a lot of interpretation.
I think you can definetely believe in God but reject organized religion. Churches are man-made institutions, and are not perfect. Even the Bible itself makes no requirement that you attend a house of worship.
So do you now consider yourself a Christian? I would assume so since you are going to a church?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Carnivore Carnivore is offline
Red, dead meat!
Carnivore's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Massachusetts
Carnivore is probably a spambot
Old Aug 5th, 2003, 10:37 PM       
I like what Mod said. I'll go with that for my answer
Reply With Quote
  #8  
VinceZeb VinceZeb is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
VinceZeb is probably a spambot
Old Aug 6th, 2003, 08:57 AM       
And now for a word from a non-hippy lovy dovy type:

God isnt something that you find. He isnt lost or hidden behind a curtain. He is all around, you have to just accept His existance, which it seems you have.

Now, when it comes to the Bible, you have to accept it. There are some things in the Bible I don't really like, but it comes with the terroritory of being Christian.

Now, if you are Christian, you do have to accept that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and it's only through Him that people are reedeemed.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
sspadowsky sspadowsky is offline
Will chop you good.
sspadowsky's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Thrill World
sspadowsky is probably a spambot
Old Aug 6th, 2003, 09:09 AM       
Good for you, George. If that's something that makes you happier, I think that's great.

As for me, I grew up in a Baptist church. Looking back, it was a rotten experience, and I think it's a horrible thing to do to a kid: filling them with guilt and fear before they're old enough to know what the hell is going on. And abandoning religion was the best, most liberating experience of my life.

I still haven't decided if I believe there is any higher power. There's something wonderfully ironic about the idea that this is all just random chance, and people still try to find proof of a grand designer. If there's some omnipotent force out there that put this all together, I bet it's far different than the human concept of "God." And, if it does exist, it's obviously got a pretty twisted sense of humor.
__________________
"If honesty is the best policy, then, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy. Second is not all that bad."
-George Carlin
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Zero Signal Zero Signal is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: /dev/null
Zero Signal is probably a spambot
Old Aug 6th, 2003, 09:24 AM       
A church is simply a building for fellowshipping with others like yourself. The body is the temple of God, not some church or other building.
__________________
I-Mockery Forums: Turn-based stupidity in a real-time world
Reply With Quote
  #11  
FS FS is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fribbulus Xax
FS is probably a spambot
Old Aug 6th, 2003, 09:42 AM       
But the great thing about God is that you don't need to be a Christian to believe. You just need to occasionally punch people in the mouth when they won't shut up about how you're believing wrongly.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Carnivore Carnivore is offline
Red, dead meat!
Carnivore's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Massachusetts
Carnivore is probably a spambot
Old Aug 6th, 2003, 09:59 AM       
Quote:
Now, when it comes to the Bible, you have to accept it. There are some things in the Bible I don't really like, but it comes with the terroritory of being Christian.
A bolt of lightning didn't strike and the Bible magically appear. It was written by people interpreting what they believe to be the word of God. It is self-contradictory and fallible.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
kellychaos kellychaos is offline
Mocker
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Where I Started But In A Different Place
kellychaos is probably a spambot
Old Aug 6th, 2003, 02:39 PM       
Quote:
Nature is a mutable cloud which is always and never the same. She casts the same thought into troops of forms, as a poet makes twenty fables with one moral. Through the bruteness and toughness of matter, a subtle spirit bends all things to its own will. The adamant streams into soft but precise form before it, and whilst I look at it its outline and texture are changed again. Nothing is so fleeting as form; yet never does it quite deny itself.

- Ralph Waldo Emerson
To me this says, in part, religion is where you find it but may appear as in different form ... also that there is a spirit within and without us that will ensure we are on the right path.


Quote:
Socrates Allegory Of The Cave

Whereas, our argument shows that the power and capacity of learning exists in the soul already; and that just as the eye was unable to turn from darkness to light without the whole body, so too the instrument of knowledge can only by the movement of the whole soul be turned from the world of becoming into that of being, and learn by degrees to endure the sight of being, and of the brightest and best of being, or in other words, of the good.

Language comes short of the mark and man deforms by "interpretation" those words that may even come close. Even so, the right spirit is in the words and the interpretation is already inside you once you get past the clouded bastardization of organized religion. I've looked all my life and still haven't found all of what I need. Modesty is a virtue in this regard and all those who think they know everthing they need to know about their existence are fooling nobody but themselves.
__________________

Wherever you go, there you are.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Sethomas Sethomas is offline
Antagonistic Tyrannosaur
Sethomas's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Abstruse Caboose
Sethomas is probably a spambot
Old Aug 6th, 2003, 03:14 PM       
The best way to find god, I hear, is to drop acid and climb a tree.

As I spieled in the Catholicism thread, faith in the bible without corroboration from orthodox religion doesn't make logical sense. All the same, I guess it's better than nothing.
__________________

SETH ME IMPRIMI FECIT
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Vibecrewangel Vibecrewangel is offline
Member
Vibecrewangel's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Vibecrewangel is probably a spambot
Old Aug 6th, 2003, 03:27 PM        wow
I'm actually gonna type this out instead of using an emoticon because right now I mean it.

I love you George. You are another in a strange line of people that have said something just like this recently.

For those of you who read my family posts......my youngest sister and I met for the first time 10 years. She is 22 now and the most amazing woman I have EVER met. Everything I went through is all worth it. She is happy and healthy. Living with and helping less fortunate children at a religous camp/community. She is glorious. And sees the world the same way you are seeing it now.

On my birthday I asked for a sign...that my life wasn't a waste. And she showed up at my door with no warning.
I have no doubt that there is something out there......
__________________
Normally, we do not so much look at things as overlook them.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
mburbank mburbank is offline
The Moxie Nerve Food Tonic
mburbank's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: right behind you
mburbank has disabled reputation
Old Aug 6th, 2003, 03:32 PM       
"God is bigger than the Boogey-man"
-Veggie Tales

"Some people can't tell the difference between God and the Boogey man. "
-Me.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Sethomas Sethomas is offline
Antagonistic Tyrannosaur
Sethomas's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Abstruse Caboose
Sethomas is probably a spambot
Old Aug 6th, 2003, 03:37 PM       
According to Aquinas, evil can't exist in and of itself, so evil is just an inadequacy of good. Furthermore, free will can't over power God's will, so God's will entails all evil.
__________________

SETH ME IMPRIMI FECIT
Reply With Quote
  #18  
george george is offline
i will let you down
george's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: MARYLAND
george is probably pretty okgeorge is probably pretty okgeorge is probably pretty ok
Old Aug 6th, 2003, 03:42 PM       
part of what turned me back towards having faith was a book i picked up on the history of the bible. it did a good job of explaining what parts of the bible are historical, and what parts are "inspired lessons", i found out a lot of what i disliked from the bible had a different meaning that what i had been taught to believe.

plus i really like the idea that jesus looked a lot like the pre haircut carni.

i love you too VCA.
__________________
tax collectors, fishermen and whores, baby.
i am super humble, and better than bacon
doctorboogie fanclub member #1
@jorgedomingo on twitter.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Jeanette X Jeanette X is offline
Queen of the Beasts
Jeanette X's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: in my burrow
Jeanette X is probably a spambot
Old Aug 6th, 2003, 04:05 PM       
Wow, thats amazing VCAngel. I'm very happy for you.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Vibecrewangel Vibecrewangel is offline
Member
Vibecrewangel's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Vibecrewangel is probably a spambot
Old Aug 6th, 2003, 05:31 PM        Neat
I love how simple it often is. A book. Something someone said. I've always thought that spiritualism is personal. Church always seemed to strip that away. Among other things.
I'm really glad you found that simple thing that changed it for you.

Jeanette thanks!
__________________
Normally, we do not so much look at things as overlook them.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Helm Helm is offline
Mocker
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mount Fuji
Helm is probably a spambot
Old Aug 6th, 2003, 05:34 PM       
Nothing is better than something if the something is stupid.

As to god without church: I have a hard time taking the concept of an all-powerful, omnipresent, eternal God. I could accept the possibility of some vastly different sort of life-form as the creator of some of the things the creation of which we attribute to god, but then that wouldn't be a 'god' by most definitions. So um... my main beef isn't with the church (or rather, I have a completely different sort of beef with the church) but with the moronity of the concept of the Judeo-Christian model of 'god' to begin with.


As to your experience and resulting shift in belief, just keep in mind that people usually underestimate their ability to completely bulshit themselves blind. Some things just seem too attractive to pass up, apparently. Just be very critical of your beliefs, and especially on why you have them. You wouldn't believe how many people force themselves to believe this and that just so they have something interesting to say at parties. I know I've done it, and when I did it I don't think I classified for a complete moron, so apparently this is not an attribute of only those of little intellectual capacity. In fact, I'd wagger that the more complex ideas you fathom, the more you're in danger of 'buying into your own bulshit' so to speak. You wouln't believe what stuff people say and keep a straight face about it.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #22  
O71394658 O71394658 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: A theater near you
O71394658 is probably a spambot
Old Aug 6th, 2003, 09:12 PM       
Many believe that "religion" in and of itself is not necessary for belief in God, or some form of omnipotent higher power. Religion would be the classification on exactly who/what that higher power consists of, and the proper way in which to revere and please him (I'm going to use the masculine reference here, hope nobody gets pissed )

That said, one can believe in God and not follow a specific religion. Merely the acknowlegement that some form of higher power exists, whether it be- God, Mother Nature, love personified, or a amorphous cloud constitutes that religion isn't necessary...

There are others (like myself) who follow a very strict and previously guided path onto what God exactly is. As a member of any such religious faith, you acknowledge that:
1. There is a God (or God(s), or some form of essence that governs or resides over humanity...whether it be love, The Over-Soul, or any other form of existance)
2. The God that you believe in is the right one, and all the other Gods are made up or misguided.
3. You know exactly what pleases God, and what pisses him off.
4. You know about the spiritual path necessary to enlightment, or perhaps a mere understanding on to how things are the way they are.

There are many such sects, and they mostly arose from "fuck you" attitudes. For example, there was the sentence told to Peter..."you are the rock upon which I will build my Church". The modern day Roman Catholic faith traces its origin to that very sentence. Other religous sects (like many Orthodox sects specifically) believe that they are in fact the true descendants of that sentence. Other sects have arisen from humans dissatisfied with the current attitude of the Church they were a member of. Martin Luther, John Calvin, King Edward all developed "fuck you" attitude to the basic "Church", in that breaking away from the corrupt and evil practices of that particluar denomination that they would be justified, by God, to establish their own true form of the Church.

Regarding Helm's post. I must admit, it is very easy to push things on God. I know this isn't specifically what you addressed, but something you said relates to this. Relating to the whole religious argument- atheists vs. religious folk- there are relatively strong points to both sides. Atheists would say something along the lines of "Explain God. Why does he do what he does, if he's so perfect". Christians may respond along the lines of "there is no way to explain God. He isn't bound to laws of logic or reason." Truthfully, that is what we believe. It just is very simple. Throwing the entire question onto the soldiers of "we can't understand" isn't going to do anybody any good. Much the same way that you're supposed to "be like Jesus" even though it's impossible, we can at least make the attempt to understand God, even though that may be impossible. God is often used as a crutch for people to lean on (and this is actually the point, but in relating to face-to-face argument, this doesn't come across well to non-believers). Saying 'it's in God's hands now" or "God will provide" or "God will take care of it", is stating that you are throwing personal feelings, emotions, responsiblities, or hardships onto the very shoulders of God himself, merely hoping that everything turns out right in the end. Using God as a psychological escape route is something that many people do, whether they really and truly acknowlege the existance of God or not. On the other hand, there are simply things that cannot be explained. All God-believing religious folk would be the first to state that God isn't bound to laws that he essentially created (thus presenting the entire debacle- as people who don't believe in God try to disprove His existance using these very laws of logic and reason). There are, however, whether people want to believe it or not, things that cannot be explained. Laws of physics and chemistry that come into question when God enters the picture. When rules and laws that we are bound to are sometimes bent, or even broken, it brings into the question of whether there are miracles, -interventions from God-, or merely "exceptions" to the rule. (I've even seen miracles used in trying to disprove the existance of God).

Anyway, I've gotten off on a serious tangent. George, all I can say is that I'm glad you've found something, whatever it may bel, and I hope you continue to explore it.
__________________
Do not click here.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Carnivore Carnivore is offline
Red, dead meat!
Carnivore's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Massachusetts
Carnivore is probably a spambot
Old Aug 6th, 2003, 10:57 PM       

For George. Bask in my radiance!
Reply With Quote
  #24  
The_voice_of_reason The_voice_of_reason is offline
Senior Member
The_voice_of_reason's Avatar
Join Date: May 2003
Location: yes
The_voice_of_reason is probably a spambot
Old Aug 6th, 2003, 11:14 PM       
I have been doing much thinking latley and i decided that the entire universe is just the mind of God. Every movment of every particle and every possible movement of every particle is a possibility, and the only reason we exist is because our free will represents an infinite number of possibilties so our existance gives "God" an infinitely powerful mind. Now all we need to know is what "God" dreams about.





*climbs down from tree*
__________________
I like to masturbate
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Jeanette X Jeanette X is offline
Queen of the Beasts
Jeanette X's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: in my burrow
Jeanette X is probably a spambot
Old Aug 6th, 2003, 11:18 PM       
Whoa. Thats some heavy stuff there VoR. I'd love to hear more.

*sits cross-legged at your feet as a new disciple*
Reply With Quote
Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

   


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:46 PM.


© 2008 I-Mockery.com
Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.