Zerzan's The Case Against Art

[The_Rorschach]

Who is Aaliyah?

[kahljorn]

She's kurt kobain version 2.

She made some crappy Pop music, like a one hit wonder almost. Then died in a plane crash and suddenly everyone loved her.

She was also the Queen of the Damned in the Queen of the Damned music, but she *sadly* died in the making sort of like Brandon Lee for Crow.

[Rez]

Originally Posted by derrida

Rez: I'm not really going to address your second two statements, because archaeologists have uncovered plenty of man-made objects, often a great deal more intricate or delicate than stone or clay figurines, dated well before 30,000 BC.

.

yes, ok.. stone and clay figurines... you ever figure thatere were other mediums of art that cant stay preserved for 30,000 years? to say that people had no use for art X many years back isabsurd, art isn't *only* about something hidden, it's personal expression, and the audience decides if anything is ~hidden~ in it. that said, there's about a thousand different approaches to art... it can be whimsical, serious, art to challenge art (ie: a shoe made of earwax), all the way up to llinking aspects of todays society together to supposedly show how fucked things are... from what i read, everything is based on the notion that art is supposed to absolutely mean something *hidden*, or, for that matter, anything at all.

i also think art does not need to be "accorded" anything. it pretty much is... we instincually make art, lots of times without anyone thinking about it. for art to be accorded anything by us, who will always create it, seems dumb.

and also, it's not any show of un-telligence to use normal words you know... i understood everything you wrote, i just dont want to sound like someone completely self-important using similar vocabulary.

and you're right, i am suspicious... someone who writes that we're all better off without art is either someone desperate for attention/outrage or has a totally narrow, absolutist, or overly complicated view of life who can't seem to enjoy the simpler, basic things without becoming "bored"

[Bennett]

BUMP! I WANT YOU TO ROCK THE BOAT, ROCK THE BOAT, ROCK THE BOAT... WORK IT IN THE MIDDLE, WORK THE MIDDLE, WORK THE MIDDLE... CHANGE DIRECTIONS

Aaliyah's Pilot Used Cocaine?
Nov 19, 2:34 PM EST

Associated Press

An autopsy found drugs and alcohol in the body of the pilot of the plane that crashed in the Bahamas killing the singer Aaliyah and eight other people in 2001, a doctor testified during a coroner's inquest.

Pilot Luis Antonio Morales had cocaine and traces of alcohol in his system, pathologist Dr. Giovander Raju testified Tuesday at the inquest on Abaco Island, where the crash occurred.

The autopsy findings of cocaine and alcohol were disclosed in July by the Bahamas Department of Civil Aviation.

Investigators have said they believe the twin-engine Cessna 402B was overloaded by 700 pounds when it crashed shortly after takeoff from Marsh Harbor in the Bahamas en route to Florida on Aug. 25, 2001.

Aaliyah was in the Bahamas to shoot the video "Rock the Boat," which the 22-year-old singer had just finished at the time of her death.

Aaliyah's parents filed court papers in September saying they had reached an undisclosed settlement in a negligence lawsuit against the plane's operator Blackhawk International Airways Corp., owners Skystream Inc. and Gilbert Chacon and flight broker Atlantic Flight Group.

[Protoclown]

I just read this thread, and I tried to get through that article. I got the gist of it, boring though it was, and I only have this to say. Whoever wrote that fucking thing has WAY too much time on their hands. I'd like to tell the guy to get a fucking hobby, but since it was written nearly 20 years ago that wouldn't do him much good.

[derrida]

From the source:

Dada was one of the last two major avant-garde movements, its negative image greatly enhanced by the sense of general historical collapse radiated by World War I. Its partisans claimed, at times, to be against all "isms," including the idea of art. But painting cannot negate painting, nor can sculpture invalidate sculpture, keeping in mind that all symbolic culture is the co-opting of perception, expression and communication. [Nor can writing negate writing, nor can typing radical essays onto diskettes to assist in their publication ever be liberating - even if the typer breaks the rules and puts in an uninvited comment.] In fact, Dada was a quest for new artistic modes, its attack on the rigidities and irrelevancies of bourgeois art a factor in the advance of art; Hans Richter's memoirs referred to "the regeneration of visual art that Dada had begun." If World War I almost killed art, the Dadaists reformed it.

[Brandon]

Not even going to TOUCH this one. I'm still too enraged.

[Protoclown]

I'll touch it: boring and pointless.

NEXT!

[derrida]

Despite the provocative title, I don't think Zerzan is singling out art so much as he is citing the oppression inherent in symbolic thought (a redundancy, according to George Lakoff*). Zerzan wasn't the first person to do this, either- Michel Foucault, among others, had him beat by a few years.

* http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/lakoff/lakoff_p1.html

[Bennett]

Goddamnit I only bumped this thread to give you all the latest news about baby girl... so are you really that somebody? Tell me are you that somebody?

[Zhukov]

Yeah, I'd bone her.

[Protoclown]

Aaliyah was TOTALLY hot.