Looks like Max isn't the ONLY Socialist in America....

[CaptainBubba]

Alot of things, and the list of forbidden or re-written subjects as it were continues to grow.

Heres a good link to learn more about it.

http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/ejournals/...4/CenCONN.html

[Vibecrewangel]

"There are people who calculate how much another child will bring in on welfare." so you agree with vince that some people screw the system?

Here, let remind you what the opening of my post said. Just in case you missed it

There are people out there who abuse the sytem. There are people who are trapped in it. There are people who get away from it. And there are people who never use it.
Each persons situation is different and to lump them all into one category says more about you then it does about them.

See now, getting all huffy served no purpose but to show that you had a kneee jerk reaction to something without actually reading it. The difference is that Vince thinks the "majority" of people on the system screw while I think that some of the people do. Others get screwed by the system. And a few are actually able to use the sytem they way it was meant to be used. Sadly, that is the true minority in the situation.

Next, my little rant about people sitting down and calculating was in direct refference so something Vince said in his previous post. Again, try to actually reatain what you read before you jump into the fray.

BTW - The buffer I was speaking us is for people that WANT to work, but can't make it on a minimum wage job. The money they put away to use as a buffer means that they can work that shit pay job and still make ends meet until the get a raise helping them to not to have to stay on or go back to welfare.

[The_Rorschach]

"Rommel is a horrible choice showing your ignorance of history. He was executed by Hitler ( Given a choice between suicide or execution followed by the ruining of Rommel's wife and son) for treason and was involved in the army not the SS. Rommel fought for Germany not Hitler or Hitler's policies. A poor choice for an insult."

Settle down there tiger.

Actually, it is fairly apt. When you spend enough time here, you will find that Vince is a mindlessly salivating moron, and even when he agrees with your points, he presents them in such an uneducated manner whereas to be singularly unhelpful.

You'll want to execute him too, in time.

I know who Rommel is, cut me some lack would you? I'm probably going to be the only person here who isn't going to try and rend your arguments apart.

[The_voice_of_reason]

It seems for vinny that george orwell was corect, his cheif strength is his ignorance. he blindly denies the facts presented to him yet refuses to present facts for his side of the argument, that reminds me of some one... oh yeah our dear president. Tell me vinny is your dad a texan oil baron, but i digress. and yes my dear friend you are racist. Just because you hide your views behind socially correct language i.e. immigrants instead of dirty Spics and Gooks (55% of immigrants are mexicans, 30% are from mailand asia) and by the way, unless you are a native american your ancestors were immigrants maybe if they kept their legs closed we wouldn't be subjected to your mindless propaganda.

[CaptainBubba]

The yin to vinces yang? Both highly arrogant, but both utterly opposed to eachother? I don't care who The_voice_of_reason is, but I like him because he capitalized Spics and Gooks but not asia.

edit: I really do like you except for the name.

[Jeanette X]

Originally Posted by CaptainBubba

Alot of things, and the list of forbidden or re-written subjects as it were continues to grow.

Heres a good link to learn more about it.

http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/ejournals/...4/CenCONN.html

These books were banned/challanged/altered yes...but the motive in most cases appears to have been good ol' fashioned prudery, not political correctness. Books were banned before political correctness appeared. Not every book-banning is caused by it, although some are, Huck Finn being the most well known example.
Furthermore, I have heard of many incidents of the relgious right getting their knickers in a twist because of evolution being taught in schools, and sex ed. Abstinance only sex ed is taught in Texas, and I think that religious prudery is the root of this, not PCness.
PCness generally comes into play with issues such as gender and race, not profanity and sexuality. That is job of outraged Christian parents. I am certain everyone is aware of the hissy fit being thrown about Harry Potter and how it supposedly teaches children that witchcraft is acceptable. Not to mention all the hullabo over "Heather and Her Two Mommies" a few years ago...

[The_voice_of_reason]

I'd like to aplogize for my previous post. I was in a hurry and neglected to proof-read it. As to the name, it is amusing to me, though you would not get it because you are not aquainted with me.

[VinceZeb]

Originally Posted by The_voice_of_reason

It seems for vinny that george orwell was corect, his cheif strength is his ignorance. he blindly denies the facts presented to him yet refuses to present facts for his side of the argument, that reminds me of some one... oh yeah our dear president. Tell me vinny is your dad a texan oil baron, but i digress. and yes my dear friend you are racist. Just because you hide your views behind socially correct language i.e. immigrants instead of dirty Spics and Gooks (55% of immigrants are mexicans, 30% are from mailand asia) and by the way, unless you are a native american your ancestors were immigrants maybe if they kept their legs closed we wouldn't be subjected to your mindless propaganda.

Oh, I am racist? Please explain to me why I am racist. The last time I checked, I didn't think people of Italian ancestry were superior on a genetic level to other races. I must be racist becuase I pointed out that we have an border and immigrant problem in the United States. Anyone with a brain realizes that.

And forgive me for being, well.... more intelligent than you, "voice of reason", but you don't have to be Mexcian or Oriental to "abuse the system". St. Louis is a big enclave for immigrants from Central Europe, and a few of them abuse the system. Now, if I were racist, and thought of whites as the "master" race, I woudn't care about some of them freeloading. But I do.

If you can work and make our country better, come on in. Welcomed with open arms. If you are just going to soak up our tax dollars and be a lazy worthless fuck, then keep your ass in your own country. Besides, our borders are so pathetic that a terrorist can slip in relativity easy. Saying that I am "racist" is just the new way morons try to discredit someone. Learn what that word means before you use it.

Now, if you have had enough, I suggest you don't speak again. Anyone that just randomly comes in will see that you are a reactionary type who did not check all his facts before he blasted me with an accusation of being "racist". Those people usually don't garner or deserve respect.

[AChimp]

Anti-semitism is a form of racism, and you seem to have a great abundance of that. Where's your klan hood, Vinth?

[CaptainBubba]

Jeanette, you also aren't allowed to say Landlord, founding fathers, or snowman, because its considered sexist. You also cannot portray woman as anything but working women. That means no stories or history involving the "stay at home" mother.
It gets fairly ridiculous to say the least. Its hard for most people out of school to find out about it though, because its not like the kids realize they aren't recieving the same education their parents were.

Voice_of_reason: I really wasn't being sarcastic, I do like you... but I still don't like your name.

[mburbank]

I don't think Vince IS racist. I think he's a hateful sack of crap, proud enough of his ignorance to call it intelligence, selfish enough to loathe anyone he thinks might touch one of his dollars, weak willed enough to believe anyone who massages his hate, and blind enough to think his mouthy, mean spirited bluster is special.

Isn't that enough?

[VinceZeb]

Well, Chimp, if you knew anything, you would know that the Klan harrased Italian immigrants as well as Catholics during their peak, so I don't think I'll be joining the klan anytime soon. But then again, to know that you would have to have a brain, which your post show otherwise.

[AChimp]

Okay, we can add not understanding figures of speech to Vinth's list of attributes now, too.

[snake]

SOFT ON COMMUNISM!

[The_voice_of_reason]

The truly funny thing is that the unimployement rate amoung immigrants is constantly lower than that of naturalized citizens. The reason that they have lower incomes and therefore more eligable for economic aid is they don't have the nessicary education or the means to get that education. I forget why this is funny but it is.

Another thing is immigrants illegle or otherwise take the jobs no self-respecting educated american is willing to take, do you like vegetables? They were picked by immigrants. do you like your clothes? They were sewn by immigrants.

from vince

St. Louis is a big enclave for immigrants from Central Europe, and a few of them abuse the system.

in an earlier episode

You will learn a worldfull. Not everyone who is on these kinds of programs is lazy, but the majority abuse the system

[The_Rorschach]

"The truly funny thing is that the unimployement rate amoung immigrants is constantly lower than that of naturalized citizens. The reason that they have lower incomes and therefore more eligable for economic aid is they don't have the nessicary education or the means to get that education. I forget why this is funny but it is.

Another thing is immigrants illegle or otherwise take the jobs no self-respecting educated american is willing to take, do you like vegetables? They were picked by immigrants. do you like your clothes? They were sewn by immigrants. "

Prove it. Saying a thing doesn't make it so. Tell me, proporationately, exactly how many vegetables are picked by migrant workers working illegally within the US, and then compare that with the total number produced by other, legal, means -including, but not limited to, produce bought from foreign nations and imported or grown and harvested by legal residents.

Also, contrast the amount of clothing sewn by immigrants and sold domestically with that produced by manufacturers, corporations and small buisnesses without the use of immigrants.

Furthermore, once you have done that, I want you to compare the estimated number of illegal immigrants swarming into this nation with the number of immigrants employed in the fashion you cite above.

[Jeanette X]

Originally Posted by CaptainBubba

Jeanette, you also aren't allowed to say Landlord, founding fathers, or snowman, because its considered sexist. You also cannot portray woman as anything but working women. That means no stories or history involving the "stay at home" mother.

Granted, that may be true, but those were not the subjects of the link you gave. (assuming I didn't overlook mentionings them) The link was more about prudery than pcness. Also, wouldn't all this depend on the school districts, the states, and the regions, as opposed to being uniform nationally? Which areas and schools specifically have made these things forbidden?

[CaptainBubba]

I'm gonna be honest here. I'm far too lazy to do your assigned research. I'm getting my info from various radio and news sources that have come and passed. I'm not going to work to prove a point that shouldn't even be an object of contention. Why do you find what I'm saying hard to believe?

[Jeanette X]

Originally Posted by CaptainBubba

I'm gonna be honest here. I'm far too lazy to do your assigned research. I'm getting my info from various radio and news sources that have come and passed. I'm not going to work to prove a point that shouldn't even be an object of contention. Why do you find what I'm saying hard to believe?

I don't find it hard to believe that things like that happen. I am merely suggesting that perhaps the pc-induced censorship is not as pervasive as you seemed to imply.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Originally Posted by The_Rorschach

"Another thing is immigrants illegle or otherwise take the jobs no self-respecting educated american is willing to take, do you like vegetables? They were picked by immigrants. do you like your clothes? They were sewn by immigrants. "

Prove it. Saying a thing doesn't make it so. Tell me, proporationately, exactly how many vegetables are picked by migrant workers working illegally within the US, and then compare that with the total number produced by other, legal, means -including, but not limited to, produce bought from foreign nations and imported or grown and harvested by legal residents.

Also, contrast the amount of clothing sewn by immigrants and sold domestically with that produced by manufacturers, corporations and small buisnesses without the use of immigrants.

Furthermore, once you have done that, I want you to compare the estimated number of illegal immigrants swarming into this nation with the number of immigrants employed in the fashion you cite above.

Come now Ror, no need to be so confrontational here, a little bit of common sense should prevail. You're asking him (her?) for 100% accurate documentation on citizens who are not documented. Farmers, garment makers, and eating establishments look towards this illegal labor primarily BECAUSE it's "off the books," and requires no record keeping, no reporting to the IRS.

Think about the diners and restaurants you go to, the farms you drive by, etc. Economically speaking, the above claim makes sense. More Americans are getting college degrees than ever before, the economy as a whole is moving towards special services and skills, as opposed to manual labor and production.

[The_Rorschach]

Exactly my point Kev. There is no documentation, and yet he presents what his "feelings" tell him is true and presents it as fact.

I'm not going to just going to stand here idly and let him get away with it. I don't care how much sense something makes if it is not representative of the reality. If he wants to parrot unthruths and opinions, thats fine, but don't expectme to show silent toleration for it.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Originally Posted by The_Rorschach

Exactly my point Kev. There is no documentation, and yet he presents what his "feelings" tell him is true and presents it as fact.

I'm not going to just going to stand here idly and let him get away with it. I don't care how much sense something makes if it is not representative of the reality. If he wants to parrot unthruths and opinions, thats fine, but don't expectme to show silent toleration for it.

Ok, so is there then documentation that proves something to the contrary?? Do you not agree that migrants carry a heavy burden of the American work load b/c you know it's not true, or do you not believe it b/c you don't want it to be true...?

[The_Rorschach]

I reserve judgement on the basis that necessary facts are not available, which I would think, is the prudent responce.

I do however, know for a fact that certain stastical data is misleading, for in California there are many migrant workers that are used to harvest produce, but many of them are citizens of Mexico allowed to operate on a work visa in the United States. However, they have been referred to as "immigrants" by certain liberals in the attempt to make the presence of all illegal immigrants somehow acceptable.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Oh, let me clarify myself, I'm not claiming that ALL immigrants involved in manual labor are illegal, although I'm sure many are. The other problem is that those work permits expire, and then they stay here. The line between "legal" and "illegal" isn't only a hard one to determine, but it seems to rapidly change per individual.

[The_Rorschach]

Well, this is what I know about Immigrants, regardless of whether they are illegal or not, immigrants are more of a drain to society than an asset. He wants to try and explain away their presence as though they were filling necessary economic niches which would otherwise never be filled, but he is wrong. Just to find a verifable online source, I took my stats from the Center For Immigration Studies.



"The poverty rate for immigrants is 50 percent higher than that of natives, with immigrants and their U.S.-born children (under age 21) accounting for 22 percent of all persons living in poverty."

=-=-=-=-
They comprise nearly a fifth of our poor, which is not anywhere near proportional to their total population presence.
=-=-=-=-

"The percentage of immigrants without a high school diploma is 30 percent, more than three times the rate for natives. Also, of all persons without a high school education, one-third are now immigrants. Immigrants are also slightly more likely than natives to have a graduate or professional degree. "

"One-third of immigrants do not have health insurance — two and one-half times the rate for natives. Immigrants who arrived after 1989 and their U.S.-born children account for 60 percent or 5.5 million of the increase in the size the uninsured population."

=-=-=-=-
Now this is a winning combination, but hey, its alright, because we need more unskilled labourers in a post-industrialized economy which is increasingly being driven by specialized and educated workers.
=-=-=-=-