So, where do WE go from here?

[Preechr]

Where do we go from here? My fear is that Pelosi is as she said she is: only concerned with winning. If that is the case, what the hell is her party's plan at this point? Will deleting the Bush tax cuts, as if that could happen, finish the War on Terror? Will raising the minimum wage improve our popularity among the other nations of world? Will amnesty for illegals help us define what our country stands for, or help us to understand who WE are?

You guys tell me. It's not like I'm a Republican, but I am definitely NOT a modern Democrat. All you guys that have been rooting for this victory... Tell me: What's next?

[Preechr]

What is strength, if not governed by integrity?

[thebiggameover]

the R's are going to hurray up and try to tie up loose ends before next year. and the D's will spend the next 2 years undoing all of it....

[Abcdxxxx]

No idea what's next, but I'd bet the farm that everything which makes Democrats like us feel alienated will only be magnified. There will be a push to minimize the supposed boogie man issues like "the war on terror" while purposely playing up the more divisive domestic issues. Pelosi would love to see open borders with Mexico which is where she can find common ground with Bush, give or take. That's one example of where rich Democrats want to play the good Socialist...but there are a few other hotbed issues. That said, does anyone think the war will end, or the issue of civil liberties will roll back to pre-Patriot Act days?

[Grislygus]

I really don't think anything truly important is occuring, it's just the reverse effect of Contract with America. The pendulum has merely swung the other way, business as usual.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

From ABC News...

George McGovern, the former senator and Democratic presidential candidate, said Thursday that he will meet with more than 60 members of Congress next week to recommend a strategy to remove U.S. troops from Iraq by June.

So, uh, if this is any indication.....

[Preechr]

We'll call it, "Iraqification!"

It'll be GREAT!

[Courage the Cowardly Dog]

well, without an international peacekeeping force replacing us, I do believe this new "Strategy" will screw over the entire middle east and start WW3.

I expect a raised minimum wage to improve the standard of living, but also raise inflation and interest rates hence bursting the housing bubble and screwing over new businesses, hopefully they will make a law about price gouging gas and prevent what happened this summer from ever hitting again.

I also expect a gay rights amendment, abortion rights, and a slightly improved patriot act that allows you know FREEDOMS remember those?

Maybe some healthcare?

Since it's to late to stop the Mexican wall I expect they will merely hand out pole vaulting sticks at border towns to make it moot. In fact I expect Mexico to take the gold and silver in pole vaulting at the very next Olympics after the wall is completed.

All in all I'm not to thrilled but expect some good to come of it. However I do worry of the long term implications.

[Chojin]

Iraq's already a shithole warzone, can you explain to me how it could get worse if the US pulls out?

[Courage the Cowardly Dog]

Originally Posted by Chojin

Iraq's already a shithole warzone, can you explain to me how it could get worse if the US pulls out?

The warring factions overthrow the government go on a jihad against any of their neighbors, or Iran could invade them. Genocide isn't out of the question. There is a difference between war and chaos you know. If you think Saddam is the worst we could have you ain't read up ont he region in a while.

[Preechr]

Originally Posted by Chojin

Iraq's already a shithole warzone, can you explain to me how it could get worse if the US pulls out?

Ok... I got it. We go like "My bad," and take off. Everything somehow gets better then. All that energy spent concocting up IEDs suddenly gets diverted to planting flowers and distributing candy, which is free because we will it so.

We pull out, and all of a sudden there is peace in the Middle East, because everybody knows the region was basically similar to downtown Cleveland before we butted in, right? America abandoning the region is the magic key to the resolution of all the blah blah that's created all the hooplah, right?

[Chojin]

Woah there precious, I was saying that it couldn't get worse, not that pulling out would improve the situation or that it's something we should do.

The way I see it, either we maintain a strong military presence there from now into the forseeable future, or we go like 'my bad,' and take off. Just like we did in Vietnam. For the same reasons.

Honestly? I don't know what's the better option.

[Preechr]

Well, in my own way, I was objecting to the idea that it couldn't get worse. I believe any sort of "Iraqification" plan would be the absolute worst thing possible to do for us or them or anybody else. I think sticking with this until it is successful is the most important thing in the world. I blame the Bush government for not offering the education on the issue to the world in an open, honest way because I this is truly something the whole world really should be behind. Not just Iraq, but the War on Terror AND the wars in the Middle East.

I wasn't hollering at you personally, Chojin... I was speaking to the dangerous and altoether way to common idea that this is a war we could just abandon in any case with no real consequences. The War on Terror is a war FOR humanity.

[Sethomas]

I support, as McSweeney's called it, The War on Declaring Wars on Stateless Individuals and Ideologies Whose Very Nature Precludes There Ever Being an End to Said Conflicts. You know, like Terror and Drugs.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

If these ghostly ideologies acted without the help of some very real states we'd probably be in better shape. Unfortunately that isn't the case.

On the subject, I think we can count on another shot at minimum wage increase (good), and some form of bi-partisan immigration reform. I think this will be the issue that separates the conservative base from the rest of the GOP, and it should be fun to watch them tear into each other over it.

I think we have already seen the beginning of the end in Iraq. The Democrats now have power over spending in Iraq. They are designing a plan for surrender now, so it would be cheating for me to say "look for the Democrats to withdraw us from Iraq, thus ending the terrorism problem entirely!"

[Preechr]

Originally Posted by Sethomas

I support, as McSweeney's called it, The War on Declaring Wars on Stateless Individuals and Ideologies Whose Very Nature Precludes There Ever Being an End to Said Conflicts. You know, like Terror and Drugs.

I agree the war on some drugs is a tremendous waste of time and a collosal moral sinkhole, but I don't think it necessarily follows that teh War on Terror is the same thing because it's a war on something. This isn't a "war on violence" or a "war on all bad things that make children cry." This is the modern world drawing a line in the sand between humanity and the Dark Ages. This is a war FOR the modern, Liberal world.

We can choose to fight it or simply rope off a third of the world for the pleasure of those that still think slavery, subjugation and terror are acceptable means of controlling people. The simple fact is that the world is smaller now, and those we are toying with the idea of sacrificing already have some idea that life can be better, that freedom exists in other places. We have to ask ourselves were we ALL born free, or just those of us lucky enough to be born in the West?

[Courage the Cowardly Dog]

Is there any way to withdraw from Iraq without the government collpasing and a resulting civil war so huge that all neighbours are drawn in and whoever has the most guns (Al Qaeda right now) will then rule the country?

Maybe we shouldn't have gone in but fighting a losing war is different from allowing a terrorist network to control an entire state and prepare to attack us while we aren't fighting them.

We have to be able to get out WITHOUT the government we set up collapsing and being over run by Iranian political groups and Alqaeda who are only gonna make things much worse for us on an international and terror scale.

Our dying troops aren't just fghting a slowly losing (or winning depending on who you ask) battle they are holding back gigantic floodgates. If you think the rebels are bad now? Wait till they have their own government and terrorist state like the Taliban had.

If we pull out without huge amounts of UN peace keeping troops we are more screwed then if we stay, and the people we came to help are more screwed as well.

How can it get worse then now? Alqaeda could win the civil war and have it's own state. Who do you think is gonna stop them then when they try to start a nuclear war with Israel? France maybe?

[mburbank]

I'm going to DISNEYWORLD! I hope nobody made that joke. I haven't had time to read this thread yet.

[Jeanette X]

Where do we go
Where do we go now
Where do we go
Where do we go
Where do we go
Where do we go
Where do we go now
Where do we go
Sweet child
o Where do we go now
ah ah aiai ai ai
Where do we go now
Where do we go

Where do we go
Where do we go now
where do we
where do we go now
sweet child
sweet child of mine

[Preechr]

Originally Posted by KevinTheOmnivore

On the subject, I think we can count on another shot at minimum wage increase (good),

Yeah, sweet for unions...

Originally Posted by KevinTheOmnivore

...and some form of bi-partisan immigration reform. I think this will be the issue that separates the conservative base from the rest of the GOP, and it should be fun to watch them tear into each other over it.

Taking it past entertainment value, I also look forward to the passage of amnesty and the most "aggregious" form of guest worker program the worst sort of anti-American could possibly come up with. It's always irked me to see the party of God and smaller government fight to protect our current welfare system.

Originally Posted by KevinTheOmnivore

I think we have already seen the beginning of the end in Iraq.

Thanks to those that have been waging the war against the terrorists in the Middle East.

Originally Posted by KevinTheOmnivore

The Democrats now have power over spending in Iraq. They are designing a plan for surrender now, so it would be cheating for me to say "look for the Democrats to withdraw us from Iraq, thus ending the terrorism problem entirely!"

I'm not quite sure what that last part actually means... and I'm looking forward to you explaining it better... but all the Democrats have the power to do at this point, without concessions from the executive branch (which I'm not entirely comfortable with suggesting won't happen,) is cutting the funding for the military, which I'm pretty sure they won't do while we're actually at war. They may have the opportunity to increase the public debate, but I don't believe they have the political power at this point to end the war effort.

Of course, I'm also the guy that thought they wouldn't gain a bit of power in the mid-terms, so...