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Pentegarn · #1

You and GW can get together and make LttP hate babies then

And it isn't subjective when rock solid numbers support something GW, that is actually the polar opposite of subjective.

Here's an example of a subjective statement though:
"This sucks because I don't like it".
No facts, no reasons, just emotion.

Now, here's an example of a non subjective statement
"Game x is a good game, it is good because 95% of people who have played it have liked it"
See that? There's numbers supporting a statement.

Furthermore, I don't believe for a moment that you played LttP 2 times through, or even one time through. If you really played it twice through and it took you that long to decide it was bad, you are simply an idiot who takes way too long to figure out anything. Do you stick your hand in fire and take two weeks to decide it burns? I submit you are either an idiot, or a liar

King Hadas · #2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pentegarn

Now, here's an example of a non subjective statement
"Game x is a good game, it is good because 95% of people who have played it have liked it"
See that? There's numbers supporting a statement.

95% is a big number but it's still just a bunch of opinions, which are by definition subjective. Even if 100% thought well of lttp I'm not sure even that would qualify it as being objectively good. I don't think what makes a game "good" is defined well enough that you can apply it and then prove it objectively true.

Anyways, we all know the game is popular (you can probably prove that as an objective fact) but that doesn't mean it's flawless. I say, objectively, that I did not like lttp and I also say, objectively, that I value my own opinion over the opinion of 95% of some hypothetical demographic.

Pentegarn · #3

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Hadas

95% is a big number but it's still just a bunch of opinions, which are by definition subjective. Even if 100% thought well of lttp I'm not sure even that would qualify it as being objectively good. I don't think what makes a game "good" is defined well enough that you can apply it and then prove it objectively true.

Anyways, we all know the game is popular (you can probably prove that as an objective fact) but that doesn't mean it's flawless. I say, objectively, that I did not like lttp and I also say, objectively, that I value my own opinion over the opinion of 95% of some hypothetical demographic.

Because last I checked, video games are a business. The people who make them are in it to make money. That majority of the player base like the game, spend their money, make a huge profit, so the game becomes, say it with me now, a S U C C E S S.

All GW has given us is a list of "I don't like x's" but that is not tangible evidence that a game is bad, it is just a series of opinions from someone that wants to dislike. Key word there, 'wants'.

I find people who want to dislike something just to be 'different' to be hilarious. I also find them to be somewhat cowardly and hypocritical. If you want to be different, go all the freaking way. Don't just hate things everyone loves, declare you love things everyone hates. Join the neo nazis, watch Sandra Prill videos, buy a copy of Ishtar, get the game ET for Atari 2600 and play it nonstop. Of course none of them do, so in the end their opinions are laughable, empty, and meaningless because half measures get you nowhere.

While we are at it, the internet is pretty popular, aren't you being a conformist by using it?

King Hadas · #4

I played it when I was little too and it wasn't noticeably worse than any of my other Atari games. Of course, it certainly was no Burgertime

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pentegarn

buy a copy of Ishtar

I heard Ishtar was okay.

Grislygus · #5

Gary Larson was the probably the only person to ever admit that, and I think he was just feeling guilty about dissing a movie he never saw

Guitar Woman · #6

>shit puzzles
>shit level design
>boring, samey visuals
>shitty, unsatisfying combat
>shit sound effects
>fucking keyhunts and aimless wandering
>essentially a NES game with beefed up graphics
>just like Zelda 1 except without any decent puzzles or challenge
>boring

How about we stop talking about LttP and start talking about Majora's Mask, a much better game

Guitar Woman · #7

Link's Awakening is simply a much better game. Better design, better music, better story, better overworld, better dungeons, better puzzles, smoother gameplay, etc. I'd go so far as to call it a brilliant game, even. The hilarious part is that yes, it absolutely trounces LttP despite being built on inferior hardware, but that's not anything new.

So far this arguement has consisted of "guys, I don't like LttP very much, here's a collection of reasons for that"

"WOAH, STOP BEING SUCH A HIPSTER WITH YOUR TROLL OPINIONS"

Quote:

I find people who want to dislike something just to be 'different' to be hilarious. I also find them to be somewhat cowardly and hypocritical. If you want to be different, go all the freaking way. Don't just hate things everyone loves, declare you love things everyone hates. Join the neo nazis, watch Sandra Prill videos, buy a copy of Ishtar, get the game ET for Atari 2600 and play it nonstop. Of course none of them do, so in the end their opinions are laughable, empty, and meaningless because half measures get you nowhere.

While we are at it, the internet is pretty popular, aren't you being a conformist by using it?

I don't think you even partially comprehend my motives. OH DEAR WAS THAT COMMENT TOO HIPSTER FOR YOU

Grislygus · #8

Yes, but why are the puzzles better?

Guitar Woman · #9

Because they're fun to solve, obviously.

Basically it boils down to "Link to the Past is not very fun." This is because it's fucking tedious and all the puzzles and keyhunts and shit take 10 fucking years to finish even if you already know what to do

Pentegarn · #10

All you keep saying though is "I don't like it because I don't like it"

That's the intellectual equivalent of Beavis and Butthead conversations

Beavis: Hey Buthead, let's play LttP heh heh

Butthead: Uhhh huh huh, LttP sucks, huh huh

All I have seen you do is say, 'I don't like (music/traps/level design/keys)' All of which by the way were in Link's Awakening executed pretty much the same way. You don't give examples of where you find a flaw in LttP nor do you explain how Awakening remedies these alleged flaws. Which brings me back to you are lying about playing it through twice. I think the reason you give no real examples is you have in fact never played LttP and you want to seem, yes, hipster. Or maybe you are taking a page from The Coolinator school of debate, where you just say the same thing over and over and then expect us to present your own argument for you.

Zomboid · #11

It's "better" is not a valid argument. This is exactly why no one is taking your opinion seriously.

Chojin · #12

the game boy version of mortal kombat is the best. the moves are just done better than the arcade. kano's ball roll is impossible with the arcade stick. plus it's more fun.

Guitar Woman · #13

Quote:

All I have seen you do is say, 'I don't like (music/traps/level design/keys)'

So, you've watched me talk about how I hate everything that makes up the game and are still at a loss for why I don't like it?

Quote:

the game boy version of mortal kombat is the best. the moves are just done better than the arcade. kano's ball roll is impossible with the arcade stick. plus it's more fun.

Come on, dude, Mortal Kombat is an Eldritch piece of shit no matter what system it's on, this is hardly a valid comparison.

Chojin · #14

i still haven't seen a single gameboy game that was playable, let alone superior to anything

WhiteRat · #15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chojin

i still haven't seen a single gameboy game that was playable, let alone superior to anything

Woah woah, let's not get crazy here. It was a severely limited platform but had a bunch of good games. I had a Gameboy back in the diz-ay and here are just a few games that were AWESOME and completely playable:

Metroid 2: Return of Samus - No i'm not going to be like the hipster Gdub and claim it's better than Super or even the original Metroid but this game was pretty damn fun and had a massive world to explore which I had completely memorized to a t when I was a kid. The Metroid Queen (The Final Boss) was impressive to see given the Gameboy's limitations.

Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins - Crazy world that didn't fit into the Mario universe but it had pretty good graphics for the gameboy and enough levels to wanna slap yo mamma.

Operation C - Great contra portable with good graphics and play control but it didn't have a whole lot of levels. Still fun as hell.

Super Mario Land 3: Warioland - Better graphics than Land 2, awesome music, and enough treasures to find to keep you busy for a long time.

Bionic Commando - I actually liked this better than the NES version but admittedly I didn't play the NES version until years later on a ROM, so my opinion is probably shit.

Also Mortal Kombat was fucking TERRIBLE but that didn't stop me from obsessively playing it.

Guitar Woman · #16

Pokemon?

Chojin · #17

okay yes i played pokemon red on the color and it was enjoyable. doesn't rly count though since it was on the color.

i think the original tetris might have been ok too; i can't remember if the gameboy's terribad ghosting affected it as much as every other game on that system

Grislygus · #18

that GB Ninja Gaiden game was playable, but easy as shit. My cousin had it and I beat it in an hour. The first GB bionic commando and mario game was fun, too.

That was about it.

Guitar Woman · #19

Quote:

okay yes i played pokemon red on the color and it was enjoyable. doesn't rly count though since it was on the color.

Uh, it was still a gameboy game, right?

I just assumed we were talking about the color anyway, but the b&w version of Link's Awakening is essentially the same game, just with a shitload of hilarious teleportation glitches that let you sequence break like nobody's business

Pentegarn · #20

Oh so a glitchy game is better? I see.

Yeah there is nothing more to discuss, you clearly know nothing about what makes a good game a good game

Guitar Woman · #21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pentegarn

Oh so a glitchy game is better? I see.

Yeah there is nothing more to discuss, you clearly know nothing about what makes a good game a good game

haha yeah ok

That's pretty much not what I said, but feel free to give yourself an easy exit

mew barios · #22

i used that teleporting glitch so often i wore out the select button on my gameboy

Pentegarn · #23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guitar Woman

haha yeah ok

That's pretty much not what I said, but feel free to give yourself an easy exit

No that is precisely what you said, so my post stands correct as opposed to corrected. But thanks for your attempted participation in the conversation

Zhukov · #24

It's not that crazy a notion that a game can have flaws yet still be better than a game without said flaws. It may even be possible that the aforementioned flaws give the game a certain character and charm that may otherwise not have been present.