Go Back   I-Mockery Forum > I-Mockery Discussion Forums > Philosophy, Politics, and News
FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Geggy Geggy is offline
say what now?
Geggy's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Peebody
Geggy is probably a spambot
Old Apr 19th, 2006, 10:53 AM        I love you, I love you not
This will probably be one of the many gayest threads I've ever started.

Anyways I was reading seththomas's most recent thread of this forum and it got me thinking. I think we all know that it's fucked up to think that stupid people are teh evil figuresticks of the society. Sooo I was wondering which comes first for you guys...

Intelligence or compassion?

I think y'all know by now that I put compassion before intelligence towards others. I will tell you why and will be using the marge/homer simpson analogy as soon the shitstorm at work dies down. But I was just thinking about it for a while and thougt it would spark an interesting convo...

...Loveline forum?
__________________
enjoy now, regret later
Reply With Quote
  #2  
mburbank mburbank is offline
The Moxie Nerve Food Tonic
mburbank's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: right behind you
mburbank has disabled reputation
Old Apr 19th, 2006, 11:40 AM       
Compassion by a country mile. Relative Intellgence is neutral, a tool you can do anything with.

But in the philisophical game of rock, paper, scissors, I think you are leaving out the Funny.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Johnny Couth Johnny Couth is offline
Senior Member
Johnny Couth's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2005
Johnny Couth is probably a spambot
Old Apr 19th, 2006, 11:49 AM       
To much compassion means people walk all over you.

What's the downside to intelligence?
__________________
Oh, to the west!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
mburbank mburbank is offline
The Moxie Nerve Food Tonic
mburbank's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: right behind you
mburbank has disabled reputation
Old Apr 19th, 2006, 11:53 AM       
How about Nuclear Weapons?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Johnny Couth Johnny Couth is offline
Senior Member
Johnny Couth's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2005
Johnny Couth is probably a spambot
Old Apr 19th, 2006, 11:55 AM       
The third choice should be wisdom then.
__________________
Oh, to the west!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
mburbank mburbank is offline
The Moxie Nerve Food Tonic
mburbank's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: right behind you
mburbank has disabled reputation
Old Apr 19th, 2006, 02:25 PM       
As in "If I had any wisdom I'd never have asked such a stupid question?"
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Sethomas Sethomas is offline
Antagonistic Tyrannosaur
Sethomas's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Abstruse Caboose
Sethomas is probably a spambot
Old Apr 19th, 2006, 04:18 PM       
"Stupidity is also a gift of God, but one mustn't misuse it." - John Paul II

I was rightfully hesitant in posting those meanderings because the only people who seem to complain about stupidity are 1. those who are inundated in it and constantly feel the need to verbally distance themselves from it, and 2. the marginally intelligent who feel a false sense of empowerment from seperating themselves from the uneducated teeming millions. Back when I lived in the Ivory Tower, the only people I knew who would ever talk about "stupid people" were the severely socially inept. Back when I paid my dues to Mensa, half the letters published in the monthly magazine essentially asked what the hell was wrong with us that we needed such a community in the first place. It was once brought up that, although we at once had Isaac Asimov of whom to brag for his being the president, the truly stunning minds of any given time would probably be somewhat embarrassed to join an intelligence society. I can't imagine Brian Greene in conversation talking about how he is a world leader in a mathematical construct that dictates that the universe has eleven hyper-dimensions... and, by the way, has a membership in a 2% society. That'd just be like Robert Frost putting on his résumé that his poems have been featured in the latest poetry.com anthology.

So, compassion is far more important than intelligence. My RH at Chicago literally had a one-in-a-million mind, but I'll remember him most for being there beside me at my hospital bed. My physics professor lost, in the 60s, his bid on the patent to the laser by about two weeks while a graduate student at Columbia, but what made him a good teacher was his infinite patience.
__________________

SETH ME IMPRIMI FECIT
Reply With Quote
  #8  
That Man That Man is offline
Señor Citizen
That Man's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: On the Xbox PWNing experts on Halo 2 and awaiting Halo 3
That Man is probably a spambot
Old Apr 19th, 2006, 04:25 PM       
I like them both equally :/
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #9  
mburbank mburbank is offline
The Moxie Nerve Food Tonic
mburbank's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: right behind you
mburbank has disabled reputation
Old Apr 19th, 2006, 05:15 PM       
I can't accept your presence in this forum 'till you fulfill your promise to post an essay in genral blabber.

And Seth, you know what else was present beside your hospital bed? An IV stand. Almost certainly. But do you get all sentimental about that? No. IV stands never get shit.

I'm kidding, I totally agree with you.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
The One and Only... The One and Only... is offline
Mocker
The One and Only...'s Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Harlem
The One and Only... is probably a spambot
Old Apr 19th, 2006, 05:17 PM       
What comes first to me is whichever would benefit me the most in a given circumstance.
__________________
I have seen all things that are done under the sun; all is vanity and a chase after wind.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Immortal Goat Immortal Goat is offline
Now with less sodium!
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Immortal Goat is probably a spambot
Old Apr 19th, 2006, 05:24 PM       
Self-serving masturbatory psychobabble is never beneficial, OAO

Oh, and compassion, by a long shot.
__________________
I like snow. If winter's going to be cold anyway, at least have it be fun to look at. Probably why I was with my ex for so long...
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Acidlump Acidlump is offline
Seriously
Acidlump's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: GREAT Brittain
Acidlump is probably a spambot
Old Apr 19th, 2006, 10:37 PM       
inteligence
__________________
"I need a wall to get thosse fat ass kids off my lawn..."
THAT MAN
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Sethomas Sethomas is offline
Antagonistic Tyrannosaur
Sethomas's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Abstruse Caboose
Sethomas is probably a spambot
Old Apr 19th, 2006, 10:47 PM       
__________________

SETH ME IMPRIMI FECIT
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Big Papa Goat Big Papa Goat is offline
Mocker
Big Papa Goat's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Missouri
Big Papa Goat is probably a spambot
Old Apr 20th, 2006, 02:46 AM       
As long as you're not intelligently stupid, as Voegelin might say, intelligence is more important than compassion. Cus no one has a right to be stupid, even compassionate people. Compassionate people who are stupid can fuck things up with their good intentions, but intelligent people who aren't compassionate or intelligently stupid won't fuck things up to a great extent, because they'll understand the need for responsobility for the consequences of fucking things up for other people.
__________________
Ibid
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Sethomas Sethomas is offline
Antagonistic Tyrannosaur
Sethomas's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Abstruse Caboose
Sethomas is probably a spambot
Old Apr 20th, 2006, 03:36 AM       
I guess what with my Catholic indoctrination and all, I'd rather see the masses live well than see the elite live long. Compassion without intelligence begets simplicity, but harmony. Intelligence without compassion begets a hierarchy of exploitation.

I honestly think that Adam Smith had all the best intentions in the world with his economic work (see his Theory of Moral Sentiments for evidence), and that he genuinely thought that rational self-interest would lead to a growth in "universal opulence". The gist of Wealth of Nations is that people can act as greedily as they want, but as long as there is a competent social structure behind the economy it will only lead to improvement. He was rightfully wrong in that there's no way he could have predicted "Working-Class Manchester".

So, if he was right, intelligence would be better because it's what actually accomplishes shit. But, history has proven that it tends to only worsen matters.
__________________

SETH ME IMPRIMI FECIT
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Johnny Couth Johnny Couth is offline
Senior Member
Johnny Couth's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2005
Johnny Couth is probably a spambot
Old Apr 20th, 2006, 03:13 PM       
Intellopassion.
__________________
Oh, to the west!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Ant10708 Ant10708 is offline
Mocker
Ant10708's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: New York
Ant10708 is probably a spambot
Old Apr 22nd, 2006, 01:17 PM       
Shut the fuck up Johnny.


Oh and compassion. :/
__________________
I'm all for the idea of stoning the rapists, but to death...? That's a bit of a stretch, but I think the system will work. - Geggy
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Johnny Couth Johnny Couth is offline
Senior Member
Johnny Couth's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2005
Johnny Couth is probably a spambot
Old Apr 22nd, 2006, 01:49 PM       
Just not compassion for Johnny
__________________
Oh, to the west!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Blasted Child Blasted Child is offline
Lethal fresco
Blasted Child's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2005
Blasted Child is probably a spambot
Old Apr 23rd, 2006, 10:05 AM       
I think it's more interesting to see how these two qualities cooperate/interfere with eachother than to separate them and grade them.
On a very basic level, you need a certain amount of intelligence to interpret other people's reactions and emotional patterns, and first then can you be empathic.
You can of course have compassion to the extent that you'll say "I'd better not kick him, since that would probably hurt him the way it'd hurt me", but unless you can bring compassion to a level of more profound psychology, it'll remain virtually useless in a complex social environment.
I know of stupid people who regularly hurt eachother, not because they want to, but because they don't understand the subtler ways in which humans can be hurt, and they can't foresee long term consequences.
I think intelligence is sometimes frowned upon because we link it with evil professors, nuclear bombs and psychopaths, and believe that the only force to counteract all these abominations is some sort of holy notion of compassion.

Do you believe that he who built the nuclear bomb was completely devoid of compassion?
__________________
I dream of houses
Reply With Quote
  #20  
theapportioner theapportioner is offline
Mocker
theapportioner's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
theapportioner is probably a spambot
Old Apr 23rd, 2006, 01:13 PM       
Intelligence. It may bring about nuclear weapons, but it has also given us solar energy, antibiotics, clean water, democracy, great works of art (albeit, a different sort of intelligence than the others).

Without intelligence, we'd have a lifespan of 30. Tell me how intelligence is "worsening matters".

BTW one might respond by saying that it is compassion that drives someone to develop technology to treat malaria, or purify water, etc. There is perhaps some, but I'd say that it's mostly out of self-interest.

Compassion's great and all, but compassion without intelligence is a dead end.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
executioneer executioneer is offline
OH GOD
executioneer's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2001
executioneer won the popularity contestexecutioneer won the popularity contestexecutioneer won the popularity contestexecutioneer won the popularity contestexecutioneer won the popularity contestexecutioneer won the popularity contestexecutioneer won the popularity contestexecutioneer won the popularity contestexecutioneer won the popularity contestexecutioneer won the popularity contestexecutioneer won the popularity contest
Old Apr 23rd, 2006, 01:15 PM       
i don't think we can get very far without both, so why chooose
__________________
[COLOR=purple][COLOR=Magenta]SHAME ON A [COLOR=Pink]NIGGA WHO TRY TO RUN [/COLOR][URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVGI6mhfJyA"]GAME[/URL] ON A NIGGA[/COLOR]
[/COLOR]
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Girl Drink Drunk Girl Drink Drunk is offline
Official forum judge
Girl Drink Drunk's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Canada
Girl Drink Drunk is probably a spambot
Old Apr 23rd, 2006, 01:30 PM       
Unfortunately, some of our technological advancements that run on gas and whatnot, have been seriously fucking up nature and the ozone layer. It's only a matter of time before the earth pretty much floods, or we are killed off by nuclear warfare. Call me crazy, but thats where I think "intelligence" is taking us.
__________________
"Ignoring all the retarded anime shit and Guitar Woman fawning over a drawing to say that Toobin' is the best Tube similation since Virtual Bart."- Gadzooks
mockery.com/halloween/bag/costumequiz/default.php
Reply With Quote
  #23  
ItalianStereotype ItalianStereotype is offline
Legislacerator
ItalianStereotype's Avatar
Join Date: May 2002
Location: HELL, where all hot things are
ItalianStereotype is probably pretty okItalianStereotype is probably pretty okItalianStereotype is probably pretty okItalianStereotype is probably pretty okItalianStereotype is probably pretty ok
Old Apr 23rd, 2006, 02:31 PM       
I wouldn't call you crazy, but I would call you stupid.

what's with all the idiots in philo lately?
__________________
I could just scream
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Big Papa Goat Big Papa Goat is offline
Mocker
Big Papa Goat's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Missouri
Big Papa Goat is probably a spambot
Old Apr 23rd, 2006, 05:11 PM       
I think we need to define intelligence and compassion a bit better perhaps. The whole idea here that intelligent people without compassion will be entirely self serving and cruely harm everyone with great efficiency is a bit odd I think. Is intelligence the attribute that allows for a clear understanding of the world? If so, then the implication would be that a clear understanding of the world is that all that matters is personal self interest, and that cruelty is not actually in reality a bad thing. (Since an intelligent person should be a person that understands reality clearly, he would clearly see in reality that cruelty is not bad and that his self interest is what is good.)
And about compassion, are we talking basically about sympathy? Sympathy is certainly important, it's pretty much the root of all our moral sentiments, if you believe what Adam Smith had to say on the topic in any case. Sympathy doesn't carry you that far though, on its own it only provides a motivation to act well in the presence of other human beings whose reactions you can witness.

Consider such as Hitler though. Hitler's problem arguably wasn't a lack of comapssion, it was a deranged view of the world. He was perfectly compassionate to what he saw to be good human beings, but his stupidity (failure to perceive reality clearly) meant that what he thought was a good human being didn't really exist (aryan supermen exist only in the imagination, so to get to the 'superman' you have to clear away pretty much the entire human race, naturally starting with those who in hitlers deranged view were the most opposed to his speculated imaginary ideal humans). If you're stupid enough to actually think that some people aren't really people, then your sense of compassion and sympathy won't apply. You can see such a phenomenon in such as Eichmann even better, that banally evil putz. He was responsible through his organization of the holocaust for millions of deaths, and yet the guy was hardly demonically evil like a sadistic SS prison guard would have been.

Consider the communists if you don't believe that. Communists would probably consider themselves compassionate, but in the name of an imaginary utopia, they'll do all kinds of terrible things to all kinds of people. Didn't Lenin say one time he couldn't listen to Mozart becasue it softened him up too much? He had compassion, he could be 'softened up' by pretty classical music, but his stupidity (and don't call Lenin's bullshit the product of intelligence, imaginary communist utopias are the product of an unclear view of reality, not an intelligent assesment of it) caused him to deliberately supress his compassion.



Quote:
Unfortunately, some of our technological advancements that run on gas and whatnot, have been seriously fucking up nature and the ozone layer. It's only a matter of time before the earth pretty much floods, or we are killed off by nuclear warfare. Call me crazy, but thats where I think "intelligence" is taking us.
The problem isn't intelligence, it's stupidity! It's certainly not as if compassion would solve our excessive desires for fuel. Reliance on such as sympathy and compassion are the exact problem with solving such long term problems as environmental degradation. You put gas in your car and drive around, you can't see the consequences in human faces in front of you, it's impossible. The only solution to such problems is using intelligence to clearly see and understand the complex consequences of such actions. When you're too stupid to understand that, or stupid enough to think that your immediate interests are more important than the future of the planet, then you're going to have difficulty in solving these long term problems.

I think the whole problem here is that you're all talking about ingenuity and calling it intelligence.
__________________
Ibid
Reply With Quote
Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

   


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:50 AM.


© 2008 I-Mockery.com
Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.