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Miss Modular Miss Modular is offline
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Old May 7th, 2004, 02:02 PM        Protesters: "Fire Rumsfeld!"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlates...064631,00.html

Rumsfeld Apologizes to Iraqi Prisoners

Friday May 7, 2004 5:46 PM


By DAVID ESPO

AP Special Correspondent

WASHINGTON (AP) - Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld on Friday extended ``my deepest apology'' to Iraqi prisoners abused by U.S. military personnel and told Congress he accepts full responsibility for the shocking events.

``These events occurred on my watch. As Secretary of Defense, I am accountable for them. I take full responsibility,'' Rumsfeld told the Senate Armed Services Committee.

Rumsfeld took the witness chair after a week of controversy over the photographs of U.S. captors abusing their prisoners, often forcing them to assume sexually humiliating poses. Several Democratic lawmakers have demanded his resignation.

Sen. John Warner, R-Va., said the committee needed to know ``who knew what when, what they did about it, and why were members of Congress not properly and adequately informed.''

Rumsfeld had scarcely uttered his opening apology when protesters interrupted him.

``Fire Rumsfeld,'' some yelled before they were hustled from the room.

Rumsfeld sat calmly in his seat while the room was quieted.

Moments earlier, he added his personal apology to the one that President Bush made on Thursday.

``I feel terrible about what happened to these Iraqi detainees. They are human beings. They were in U.S. custody,'' he said.

``To those Iraqis who were mistreated by the U.S. armed forces, I offer my deepest apologies.''

Rumsfeld also referred to videos of the abuse, a reference to findings in a military report that there were ``numerous photos and videos of actual detainee abuse taken by detention facility personnel.''

Though a number of photographs have been leaked to the media, no videotapes have been made public.

Fresh disclosures surfaced as Rumsfeld went before the committee, the first of two such appearances during the day.

In Geneva, the International Red Cross said it had warned U.S. officials of abuse of prisoners in Iraq more than a year ago.

``We were dealing here with a broad pattern, not individual acts. There was a pattern and a system,'' said Pierre Kraehenbuehl, director of operations for the International Committee of the Red Cross.

Answering a question many lawmakers have posed, Kraehenbuehl said the abuse went beyond detainees held at the Abu Ghraib prison in the Baghdad area.

Despite calls from Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry and other Democrats for resignation, no congressional Republican has called on Rumsfeld to step down. And the defense secretary drew a vote of confidence on Thursday from President Bush, who declared flatly ``he'll stay in my Cabinet.''

But congressional Republicans made plain their unhappiness that they learned of the abuse - and of the shocking photos of prisoners forced into sexually humiliating poses - from the news media.

Warner and Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., both expressed their displeasure that they had not been informed earlier.

Levin noted with ``deep dismay'' that Rumsfeld and Gen. Richard Myers, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, had briefed the panel about Iraq in a classified session last week but did not mention the scandal the government knew was about to break in the news media.

Consultation with Congress ``is not supposed to be an option but a longstanding and fundamental responsibility'' of administration officials, Levin lectured Rumsfeld.

The committee session was televised live in the United States and in the Arab world, as well. Both Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabiya, the most popular television news stations in the Middle East showed the proceedings with simultaneous Arabic translation.

U.S. officials have accused both stations of bias in their coverage of the war in Iraq.

But at the same time, the broadcasts offered Rumsfeld and lawmakers an opportunity to say repeatedly that the abuses by captors in the Abu Ghraib prison outside Baghdad were an aberration. ``It contradicts all the values we Americans learn,'' said Warner.
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Brandon Brandon is offline
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Old May 7th, 2004, 02:05 PM       
I'm not quite sure how I feel about the hecklers. I think it just makes the opposition look bad. :/
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Old May 7th, 2004, 02:08 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtificialBrandon
I'm not quite sure how I feel about the hecklers. I think it just makes the opposition look bad. :/
Agreed. I despise Rumsfeld, but this was uncalled for.
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Old May 8th, 2004, 07:01 PM       
Quote:
``These events occurred on my watch. As Secretary of Defense, I am accountable for them. I take full responsibility,'' Rumsfeld told the Senate Armed Services Committee.
Actually, he called for it. Right there. Black and freaking white. :/
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Ronnie Raygun Ronnie Raygun is offline
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Old May 9th, 2004, 08:55 PM       
It's too bad for some of you that the vast majority of Americans support Rumsfeld (69%) and do not wish for him to resign.

....and only 51% were even upset about it.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...911450928.html

Americans want Rumsfeld: poll
May 8, 2004 - 4:07PM

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A majority of Americans say they are upset about reports of abuse of Iraqi prisoners, but more than two-thirds say Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld should not resign, according to a recent poll.

During congressional testimony, Rumsfeld apologised to the Iraqi prisoners and warned members of Congress that the abuse scandal is "going to get a good deal more terrible, I'm afraid".

Photos of naked Iraqi prisoners being humiliated have angered many in the United States and outraged people in the Mideast and elsewhere around the world.

The ABC News-Washington Post poll found 66 per cent believe the soldiers involved should be charged with a crime, and just over half, 54 per cent, said high-level officers should be punished for allowing the problems that led to the abuse.

People were evenly split on whether President George W Bush's administration acted quickly enough in investigating the reports and whether the administration was trying to investigate the abuse reports or was trying to cover it up.

Just over half, 51 per cent, said they were upset about the reports, including a quarter of those polled who said they were angry.

Most people, 69 per cent, said Rumsfeld should not resign. Only 20 per cent said he should resign, even though some Democratic lawmakers have been demanding the secretary's resignation. Democrats in the poll said by a 2-1 margin Rumsfeld should not resign.

Six in 10 said the abuse of Iraqi soldiers represents a few isolated incidents, while half that number, 31 per cent, said they thought the abuse was more widespread.

Asked whether they approved or disapproved of President Bush, 48 per cent approved and 35 per cent disapproved.

People were evenly split on whether the war in Iraq was worth fighting or not.

The poll of 802 adults had a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3.5 percentage points.
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Drew Katsikas Drew Katsikas is offline
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Old May 9th, 2004, 11:16 PM       
Yeah, it's too bad half of Amercans lack any sort of morality or compassion.
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Ronnie Raygun Ronnie Raygun is offline
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Old May 9th, 2004, 11:55 PM       
You sound like a liberal.
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Old May 9th, 2004, 11:56 PM       
Yeah, well, you SMELL like a conservative
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Drew Katsikas Drew Katsikas is offline
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Old May 10th, 2004, 12:00 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Raygun
You sound like a liberal.
I didn't know my distaste for inhumane prisoner treatment carried political affiliation.
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old May 10th, 2004, 10:51 AM       
Drew makes a great point, which Ronnie respons to like a child. A large portion of Americans still believe that Saddam Hussein had a direct coordination role in the 9/11 attacks. Ronnie always talks about how wonderful this REPUBLIC we live in is, and corrects anyone who may call it a DEMOCRACY. He loves the fact that we have a representative system that often tempers the emotions and feelings of the masses. He also doesn't like or trust polls, except of course when they support his own claims and reinforce everything he believes.

Apparently, as long as the bulk of American people don't think something is bad, then it clearly must not be. That line of thinking has worked out pretty well for us in the past, eh Ronnie....?
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Old May 10th, 2004, 02:55 PM       
why dont they fire the asshole who started this whole mess to begin with?

I would still like some proof that Saddam had anything to do with terrorism (other than hes not a white western christian)
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Old May 10th, 2004, 03:14 PM       
When does a majority become vast? I ask because Naldo's evidenced a fondness for this term, by which, in most cases, he seems to mean 'I think'.

While here there are actual poll numbers and a verifiable, reliable source, is 69% vast?

And what about the fact that poll numbers can change radically and quickly. If next week the same poll says the only %25 percent want rummy to stay, can you say that last weeks numbers were vast?

I think all polling really indicates is how fickle peoples opinions are. I'm more interested in what I think and how I react after digesting the days news than what the 'vast majority' of people think. The 'vast majority' think Reality shows are good programming. The 'vast majority' think Vanilla and chocolate are the best ice cream flavors. The 'vast majority' voted Al Gore for president. The 'vast majority' think you are a turkey, Nalds. What's your point?
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Old May 10th, 2004, 03:36 PM       
"the International Committee of the Red Cross found that up to 90 percent of Iraqis held by U.S. and allied troops have been arrested by mistake"
-Ap Wire.

See, now, %90, THATS a vast majority.
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Old May 10th, 2004, 03:46 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtificialBrandon
I'm not quite sure how I feel about the hecklers. I think it just makes the opposition look bad. :/
I'm kinda split on this. I think it's good to see that people aren't just completely apathetic. I think it's also sad that protesters have to worry about making their cause "look bad."

It's like we've returned to some sort of prude, 50's moral standpoint, were you have to worry about being too uncouth while protesting.

on the other hand, they did kinda come across as jackasses.
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Ronnie Raygun Ronnie Raygun is offline
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Old May 10th, 2004, 04:31 PM       
I understand Kevin's point about the polls and I agree with him but I feel that I'm misunderstood....

I personally don't put much stock in polls.....but that's juat me.

However, I do understand that most Americans probably do and that's why this poll holds some degree of relevance and value.

In this case, I was looking at this purely from a political standpoint.....not from a personal one.
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Old May 10th, 2004, 04:41 PM       
Well, as long as it's a vast majority.
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Ronnie Raygun Ronnie Raygun is offline
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Old May 10th, 2004, 04:53 PM       
Well, I think 7 out of 10 is a pretty big deal.

"Vast Majority"? Well, I can see how you might question that.
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Old May 10th, 2004, 06:27 PM       
It all depends on how you define 'vast'.
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Ronnie Raygun Ronnie Raygun is offline
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Old May 10th, 2004, 07:23 PM       
True....


vast[1,adjective]vast[2,noun]

Main Entry: 1vast
Pronunciation: 'vast
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin vastus; akin to Old High German wuosti empty, desolate, Old Irish fás
: very great in size, amount, degree, intensity, or especially in extent or rang
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Ronnie Raygun Ronnie Raygun is offline
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Old May 10th, 2004, 07:24 PM       
Or

Main Entry: 2vast
Function: noun
: a boundless space
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davinxtk davinxtk is offline
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Old May 11th, 2004, 08:54 AM       
visual audio sensory theater?



i know, i know, music forum...
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(1:02:34 AM): and i think i may have gone a little too far and let her know that i actually do hate her, on some level, just because she's female
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