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pac-man pac-man is offline
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Old Mar 9th, 2009, 09:00 AM        Obama to fund stem cell research
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090309/...ama_stem_cells

"President Barack Obama is ending former President George W. Bush's limits on using federal dollars for embryonic stem cell research, with advisers calling the move a clear signal that science not political ideology will guide the administration."


Fuck yeah.
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Colonel Flagg Colonel Flagg is offline
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Old Mar 9th, 2009, 11:52 AM       
About fucking time, too.

As a self-described science nerd (I have a PhD in Chemical Physics, for christ sakes) the former administration's attitude toward science and technology gave me a fucking migraine every time they espoused a new "directive" - such as "why not use the existing stem cell lines, there are 60 after all." This is tantamount to being asked to do cutting edge nuclear research using geiger counters and phosphors. Which is to say, you can't get there from here.

But G-Dub knew, he KNEW that all those science types were all a bunch of worrywarts - it's why he surrounded himself with the likes of Turd-Blossom. To take the burden of DETAIL off his back so he can get back to Crawford.

Sorry, I'll stop now.
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Old Mar 9th, 2009, 12:23 PM       
As someone whose spinal cord crapped out on her early, I wholeheartedly endorse gubmit-funded research.
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Old Mar 9th, 2009, 04:27 PM       
Woot!

Here's hoping a cure for Parkinson's will follow shortly (or as shortly as stuff happens in the world of medicine).
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Old Mar 9th, 2009, 04:43 PM       
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Originally Posted by Colonel Flagg View Post
About fucking time, too.

As a self-described science nerd (I have a PhD in Chemical Physics, for christ sakes) the former administration's attitude toward science and technology gave me a fucking migraine every time they espoused a new "directive" - such as "why not use the existing stem cell lines, there are 60 after all." This is tantamount to being asked to do cutting edge nuclear research using geiger counters and phosphors. Which is to say, you can't get there from here.

But G-Dub knew, he KNEW that all those science types were all a bunch of worrywarts - it's why he surrounded himself with the likes of Turd-Blossom. To take the burden of DETAIL off his back so he can get back to Crawford.

Sorry, I'll stop now.
No need to apologize; you're spot on, Colonel. One researcher interviewed in the article said something like "We've got 8 years of science to catch up on." I just shook my head when I read that. Bush pandered so hard to his Christian constituency it's pathetic. How it's okay to sacrifice lives for a war that benefits nobody, but not for research (if you even consider an embryo a life; different conversation there) that benefits everybody is ludicrous, IMO. I'm a firm believer that God has no place in policy, and idiots who vote along those lines sicken me. Poor old John McCain had to add that fucking bimbo to his ticket just to pander to the same group. And still we've got Rush Limbaugh hoping the president fails, because as Frank Schaeffer said, "They'd (Limbaugh and ilk) rather take our whole country down and be proved right, than be patriotic Americans and stand up and do the thing that every American who loves this country would do right now; which is to support the president whether you voted for him or not."

And this just doesn't benefit America. It's for the good of the world and our future. We're talking spinal cord injuries and illnesses, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, and a laundry list of conditions that could possibly be repaired/cured. This is one of my favorite things the Obama Administration has tackeled thus far, and I applaud him for it.
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El Blanco El Blanco is offline
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Old Mar 9th, 2009, 05:49 PM       
Quote:
with advisers calling the move a clear signal that science — not political ideology — will guide the administration."
Bullshit. It will always be about politics.

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have a PhD in Chemical Physics,
isn't that a redundancy?
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Old Mar 9th, 2009, 05:56 PM       
I read "political ideology" as "religion." Anything that happens in the political realm is about politics.
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BurntToShreds BurntToShreds is offline
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Old Mar 9th, 2009, 07:43 PM       
How is humanity supposed to progress if we use potential human beings as a commodity? I mean, with adult stem cells, you won't have to deal with religious activists...
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Old Mar 9th, 2009, 07:58 PM       
There are stem cells in the roots of your hair.
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Old Mar 9th, 2009, 07:58 PM       
Human beings already are a commodity. You've never had a job?
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Old Mar 9th, 2009, 08:19 PM       
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Originally Posted by BurntToShreds View Post
How is humanity supposed to progress if we use potential human beings as a commodity? I mean, with adult stem cells, you won't have to deal with religious activists...
For me, I can't presume how humanity is progressing or will progress. Anybody who wants to read the bones or glance into their crystal ball for me can feel free. As Zhukov pointed out, humans are a commodity. If I wanted to change that, I'd start by helping people who are out of a womb who are being exploited around the world for the gains of people with bad intentions.

What I can presume (based on what smart guys say) is that embryonic stem cells have the potential to help people who are suffering, whose quality of life is substandard, and who burden their families. Not saying that all people with the conditions stem cells can help aren't satisfied with their lives, but if I lost the use or control of my limbs or mind or what have you, I would want to regain use/control of them.

Religion should never, ever dictate government policy (especially in a country that has no official religion), and if you do believe in an all-powerful, omniscient god, then let him handle things. You think he's going to put the spark of life into cells that he knows aren't going to grow to maturity? I don't. God gave us the power to choose, to invent, to improve our lives, and to find ways to improve the quality of our lives.
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Colonel Flagg Colonel Flagg is offline
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Old Mar 9th, 2009, 08:50 PM       
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Originally Posted by El Blanco View Post
isn't that a redundancy?
Nope. You can get a BS or an MS in Chemical Physics. Not that many people would want to.

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Originally Posted by BurntToShreds View Post
How is humanity supposed to progress if we use potential human beings as a commodity? I mean, with adult stem cells, you won't have to deal with religious activists...
The problem, B2S, is that adult stem cells are non-differentiable. Stem cells from hair follicles can be made to grow hair, but will not make a bit of a difference in the quality of life of one who suffers from Parkinson's Disease. Embryonic stem cells are at the other end of the spectrum, and can be "teased" into nerve ganglia, alveoli, brain, pancreatic and adrenal tissue - the whole shebang.

As for the commodity aspect, you are wonderfully naive. Most basic research in its infancy used techniques and materials that we wouldn't even dream of using in our enlightenment today. For example, do we still use mercury vapor to develop photographic plates? My point is that while the research will need to be carefully monitored by bioethicists, the research is a means to an end. Eventually, researchers will be able to find embryonic stem cells in existing tissue, or perhaps can learn to "grow their own" in a petrie dish, or use some totally new and unforeseen technique that we can't even fathom at this point in time. Without an impetus to start the process, however, the projects can never get off the ground.

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Originally Posted by pac-man View Post
What I can presume (based on what smart guys say) is that embryonic stem cells have the potential to help people who are suffering, whose quality of life is substandard, and who burden their families. Not saying that all people with the conditions stem cells can help aren't satisfied with their lives, but if I lost the use or control of my limbs or mind or what have you, I would want to regain use/control of them.

Religion should never, ever dictate government policy (especially in a country that has no official religion), and if you do believe in an all-powerful, omniscient god, then let him handle things. You think he's going to put the spark of life into cells that he knows aren't going to grow to maturity? I don't. God gave us the power to choose, to invent, to improve our lives, and to find ways to improve the quality of our lives.
A-fucking-men, brother!
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Old Mar 9th, 2009, 08:56 PM       
From what I understand (which means it is totally wrong) embryonic stem cells are in the process of creating a whole body where as adult stem cells are localized to a specific duty.
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Kitsa Kitsa is offline
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Old Mar 10th, 2009, 08:25 AM       
Yep. I was just mentioning it because a lot of people seem to believe that stem cells are only in embryos.
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Old Mar 10th, 2009, 02:37 PM       
I get the feeling that most, if not all, of us don't actually know enough about stem cell research to have a clear opinion on it. I for one would love to see a discovery channel episode on it. I need visual education nowadays.
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Old Mar 10th, 2009, 02:49 PM       
Well, the results with lab rats have been nothing short of amazing. I agree that a TV special would be great to educate people who doubt that there is potential in stem cells.

Lab rats w/ Parkinsons:
http://www.boston.com/news/health/bl...ells_redu.html

Lab rats w/ heart damage:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...mcells27m.html

and my personal favorite, complete reversal of paralysis in lab rats:
http://www.livescience.com/health/09...ell-spine.html
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Old Mar 10th, 2009, 02:53 PM       
It's so gay that I'm offended by testing on rats and don't care about embryos.
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Old Mar 10th, 2009, 03:15 PM       
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Bush pandered so hard to his Christian constituency it's pathetic.
Why do people keep targetting christianity? A VOCAL MINORITY WHO HASNT BEEN INVOLVED IN CIVIL POLICY FOR LIKE 10 YEARS OR WHATEVER HE SAID.
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Old Mar 10th, 2009, 03:15 PM       
What is really confusing is this. They are using adult human stem cells to repair organ damage on rats successfully right? Or is it adult rat stem cells used on rats.

Either way, why are scientist so eager to use embryonic stem cells? On one hand I understand scientist like to fuck with anything they can get their hands on, but something isn't adding up. I highly doubt that I am getting the "bad news" about adult stem cell research.
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Old Mar 10th, 2009, 03:37 PM       
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Why do people keep targetting christianity? A VOCAL MINORITY WHO HASNT BEEN INVOLVED IN CIVIL POLICY FOR LIKE 10 YEARS OR WHATEVER HE SAID.
So you're saying that Bush's beliefs and those of his most ardent and vocal supporters didn't affect his policy? Oookay...
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Old Mar 10th, 2009, 03:37 PM       
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It's so gay that I'm offended by testing on rats and don't care about embryos.
Eh, don't worry about it. When I read The Diary of Anne Frank, I was all upset when she wrote about how this favorite pen of hers was destroyed. Meanwhile, my mom pointed out that she died of disease and starvation so a pen was the least of her problems.
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Old Mar 10th, 2009, 03:39 PM       
YES ZQ, THAT IT A GREAT COMPARISON BECAUSE IT HITS SO CLOSE TO WHAT WAS SAID!
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Old Mar 10th, 2009, 04:13 PM       
Excuse me Mr. BunnyBoy.
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Old Mar 10th, 2009, 04:14 PM       
You gotta admit ZQ, you make some weird analogies/references.
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Old Mar 10th, 2009, 04:20 PM       
This is the farthest stretch yet. I was pondering it for a while trying to make any connection. It's like a game that gets increasingly harder every post.
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