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  #76  
Chojin Chojin is offline
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Old Sep 25th, 2008, 11:45 PM       
i would just like to add to this thread that i don't think i'm ever going to die, because i will have a shiny robot body by the time i'm 80.

and a very, very large gun.
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  #77  
Tadao Tadao is offline
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Old Sep 25th, 2008, 11:47 PM       
Has anyone claimed the Adrienne Barbeau-bot yet?
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  #78  
Chojin Chojin is offline
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Old Sep 25th, 2008, 11:49 PM       
also, i'm pretty sure that right around the time quality VR becomes a reality, we'll all be too busy mentally masturbating to invent anything else.
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  #79  
kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old Sep 26th, 2008, 12:09 AM       
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Global warming from energy production isn't a huge problem? Gee whiz, I guess all those scientists are wrong.
It's not even a fact. And agan; that's not a MALFUNCTION: power plants are known to create emissions. Plus it's not just power plants don't be silly lol

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Care to explain us being more perfect as a whole with a new host of previously unhuman problems?
Okay...
PERFECT:
----------
US CURRENTLY:
----......
US AFTER SOME TECHNOLOGY AND TRANSHUMANISM BUt WIth NEW PROBLEMS LIKE DEALING WQITH IMMORTALITY:
--------..

Quote:
You seemed to.
that's prolly because you're gay. You already said in one of your other posts that whenever you say there's a problem I say it will be fixed. That means I ascent that it's not an error-free technology but disagree with you in that i think those problems will be resolved; thus refuting this "Seeming" of which you speak.

you're the one acting like the technology will be in the pits for 7,000 years.

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Why must everything be in this stark either-or dichotomy? Why can't I take a middle ground in my attitudes without being denounced as neo-Luddite merely because I think we should proceed with caution? Do you honestly believe that wholeheartedly embracing the new techonology and abolishing it are our only two options here?
Didn't I say like 30 times including after what you quoted that the real solution is to FIX THE PROBLEMS. If something causes problems you either FIX THE PROBLEMS. FIX THE PROBLEMS BY ABOLISHING THE PROBLEM MAKER. OR IGNORE ThE PROBLEM. But obviously the last one would be a "bad" decision.

To bring up what you're saying as an ARGUMENT AGAINST TRANSHUMANISM is fucking retarded.
Here's your argument:
WE SHOULD BE CAUTIOUS BECAUSE BAD THINGS MIGHT HAPPEN.

That's not an argument against transhumanism: it's an argument to be cautious. that can apply to anything and everything, but not specifically to transhumanists; only to uncautious transhumanists.

Are you saying that transhumanists are inherently uncautious? or that I'm submitting an reckless pursuit of transhumanism? Because I never did so, in fact, I've consistently said that we should be very careful to fix problems and perform rigorous experimentation if we care about not getting bad results.

In fact I don't even see how its possible to be that incautious especially with some of the things we've discussed: like how long the technology will take to develop and you know the scientific method.

From this point forward in history I decree that all transhumanists should be careful and if not they are jerks who don't care about anyone but themselves and their foolish search for an ideal!
k happy now jeanette obviously that resolves your argument and makes you a believer in transhumanism oh look how nothing you said was ever an argument about transhumanism but against uncautious acts.
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  #80  
kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old Sep 26th, 2008, 12:15 AM       
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Now this is what I mean by masturbatory. Pardon me if I'm reluctant to believe that it'll all be so nice and neat.
I didn't say it would be so "nice and neat," or anything of the sort. I said that 95% of the transhumanist argument is that technology will continue to advance and at increasing rates. And no matter what type of problem you introduce they merely point out that there's a solution.

there's not really a good way to argue against a transhumanist, or argue transhumanism, cause it's kind of non-rational in a lot of ways. Might as well argue about god, really ;/
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  #81  
Jeanette X Jeanette X is offline
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Old Sep 26th, 2008, 11:32 AM       
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Originally Posted by kahljorn View Post
It's not even a fact. And agan; that's not a MALFUNCTION: power plants are known to create emissions. Plus it's not just power plants don't be silly lol
Must we argue semantics here? Even if it isn't technically a malfunction, its still a very negative side effect. And don't tell me you don't believe in global warming.


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that's prolly because you're gay. You already said in one of your other posts that whenever you say there's a problem I say it will be fixed. That means I ascent that it's not an error-free technology but disagree with you in that i think those problems will be resolved; thus refuting this "Seeming" of which you speak.
I'm not saying that the problems won't be resolved, I'm saying it will be a long time before they are and thus I am a little unnerved by this rush to embrace the technology.


Quote:

Didn't I say like 30 times including after what you quoted that the real solution is to FIX THE PROBLEMS. If something causes problems you either FIX THE PROBLEMS. FIX THE PROBLEMS BY ABOLISHING THE PROBLEM MAKER. OR IGNORE ThE PROBLEM. But obviously the last one would be a "bad" decision.
Same strawman as before.

Quote:
Here's your argument:
WE SHOULD BE CAUTIOUS BECAUSE BAD THINGS MIGHT HAPPEN.

That's not an argument against transhumanism: it's an argument to be cautious. that can apply to anything and everything, but not specifically to transhumanists; only to uncautious transhumanists.
I make this arguement because virtually everything I've read about transhumanist ideology throws caution to the wind.
Quote:
Are you saying that transhumanists are inherently uncautious? or that I'm submitting an reckless pursuit of transhumanism? Because I never did so, in fact, I've consistently said that we should be very careful to fix problems and perform rigorous experimentation if we care about not getting bad results.
I'm saying that you are overly optimistic about fixing these problems. And I believe you are the first transhumanist I've ever seen who even acknowledged the possibilty of these problems occuring. Pardon me if I'm a little unsettled by that.



http://plif.courageunfettered.com/archive/wc233.gif

I would hotlink, but I don't want to suck up this guy's bandwidth.
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  #82  
kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old Sep 26th, 2008, 01:52 PM       
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I make this arguement because virtually everything I've read about transhumanist ideology throws caution to the wind.
Well, I didn't. So there ya go. I say, let caution be the wind beneath our sails.

Quote:
I'm not saying that the problems won't be resolved, I'm saying it will be a long time before they are and thus I am a little unnerved by this rush to embrace the technology.
There's no time-frame on this. and i wouldn't say there's an official rush, per se. Although I'm sure there's some who think it should happen now.

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Same strawman as before.
That's not a strawman. It's the logical extension of your idea ;/ If you really think that's a straw-man then i dunno you need to study more or something.

Saying we should be CAUTIOUS is NOT saying we SHOULDNT DO ANYTHING (except be uncautious or not be cautious whatever). It's just saying to be cautious. Sorry; it's not an argument against transhumanism. The only way it could be an argument against transhumanism is if you said that transhumanists are uncautious, and being uncautious is bad since it leads to bad results, therefore we shouldn't be transhumanists. Or if you could suggest a route that requires less caution than transhumanism to reach the same goal.

Furthermore, it can't be a strawman because I haven't really acted as though by misleading you from your original point and changing the topic i have defeated your whole argument because I defeated that new argument that i represented you as having.
In fact, I have consistently used your same logic against you, like when I said that if transhumanists were cautious, you would have no problem with it.
Quote:
I'm saying that you are overly optimistic about fixing these problems.
You seem overly pessimistic, or at least like you let your pessimism argue for you. and anyway that's why i mentioned such stringent control methods!

Quote:
And I believe you are the first transhumanist I've ever seen who even acknowledged the possibilty of these problems occuring. Pardon me if I'm a little unsettled by that.
Probably because I'm not at all a transhumanist and really have absolutely no interest in the idea.
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Last edited by kahljorn : Sep 26th, 2008 at 09:02 PM.
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  #83  
Dixie Dixie is offline
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Old Sep 26th, 2008, 03:52 PM       
Come on extinction!
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  #84  
kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old Sep 26th, 2008, 08:54 PM       
that's my kind of transhumanism :O
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  #85  
Pub Lover Pub Lover is offline
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Old Sep 26th, 2008, 10:22 PM       
I'm sorry if she already admitted that is was only playing the fool, but I stopped reading Jeanette's posts halfway down the last page because her pedantic and pointless idiocy wasn't being rescued by kahljorn's seemingly considered and well thought out counterpoints that Jeanette then consistantly ignored.

Haha, she probably got me good with her humourless vet attack of being dull, rite guys?
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  #86  
Pub Lover Pub Lover is offline
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Old Sep 26th, 2008, 10:37 PM       
OK, I just read the posts I skipped. Jeanette is a humourless sack of shit that should shut up until she passes a course of joke getting, if not a minor seminar in having a point before trying to argue it.
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  #87  
Jeanette X Jeanette X is offline
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Old Sep 26th, 2008, 10:49 PM       
I know, I know. I haven't gotten into a serious debate with anyone for a while, and so I'm out of form. Like a boxer who's gotten soft and fat from not practicing.
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  #88  
kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old Sep 27th, 2008, 11:18 AM       
its cool transhumanism is like the gayest subject and besides that i had home-team advantage. people arguing for transhumanism have all kinds of tricks but usually the whole caution argument does fuck with them because they are silly idiots who, like you said, never consider that there may be problem.
and yea usually they do say that it will happen WITHIN FIFTY YEARS. I think that transhumanists like that are just millenarianists in disguise!Q
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although I'm sure most transhumanists would argue that it's just around the corner with the kaleidoscopinng parascoping nature of advancing technologies! someday your paradigm will shift and you will understand that the future comes faster than the future; here time turns into space!
That's basically an accurate rendition of a transhumanist's thoughts, except with better punctuation and a quote of parsifal!
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Last edited by kahljorn : Sep 27th, 2008 at 01:25 PM.
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  #89  
Dimnos Dimnos is offline
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Old Sep 29th, 2008, 03:12 PM       
Have you guys not downloaded your consciousness into the Internet yet to battle this out on a massive IP server somewhere?
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  #90  
Pub Lover Pub Lover is offline
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Old Sep 29th, 2008, 03:32 PM       
They tried but the DNZ wouldn't resolve because Jeanette's mind is configured for mac.
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  #91  
Dimnos Dimnos is offline
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Old Sep 29th, 2008, 04:19 PM       
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They tried but the DNZ wouldn't resolve because Jeanette's mind is configured for mac.

Doh!
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  #92  
Jeanette X Jeanette X is offline
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Old Sep 30th, 2008, 01:01 AM       
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They tried but the DNZ wouldn't resolve because Jeanette's mind is configured for mac.
Abort, Retry, Fail?
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  #93  
VaporTrailx1 VaporTrailx1 is offline
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Old Oct 2nd, 2008, 01:05 AM       
All I know is we'll find out when we create the self replicating nano-bugs that might consume everything.

BTW I personally wouldn't mind having my consciousness uploaded into a computer system, as long as it was like Tron and not like The Matrix. I don't want anything close to reality. I want virtual consciousness to be retro, like Lawnmower Manish, hell maybe even like a quake 2 typa thing. something with some synth and some pixels.
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  #94  
kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old Oct 2nd, 2008, 01:24 AM       
nanotechnologu
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  #95  
Rez Rez is offline
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Old Oct 2nd, 2008, 09:05 PM       
why are we having this conversation when warren ellis isnt even around...
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  #96  
Big Papa Goat Big Papa Goat is offline
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Old Oct 3rd, 2008, 02:59 AM       
Did anyone bring up grey goo yet? That's a good one. I'm actaully pretty surprised that no transhumanists have joined the forums for the purpose of arguing in this thread, I remember I made a post on my now defunct blog that was read by maybe 10 people about transhumanism and the executive director/founder of the World Transhumanist Association, a sociologist by the name of James Hughes, made a lengthy and detailed rebuttal of my dumbass remarks.

Maybe now that I've mentioned his name he'll swing by these parts.
Transhumanism makes me sad though, I failed at writing a thesis on it
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  #97  
executioneer executioneer is offline
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Old Oct 3rd, 2008, 04:36 AM       
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Did anyone bring up grey goo yet?
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we'll find out when we create the self replicating nano-bugs that might consume everything
yes!
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