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  #1  
Kulturkampf Kulturkampf is offline
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Old Jan 21st, 2006, 01:10 AM        Koran & Murder Case
Taken from TimesOnline.

"COPIES of the Koran were handed to the jurors in the Abu Hamza trial yesterday as his defence argued that some of the cleric’s “offensive” statements were drawn directly from Islam’s holy book.

Edward Fitzgerald, QC, for the defence, said that Abu Hamza’s interpretation of the Koran was that it imposed an obligation on Muslims to do jihad and fight in the defence of their religion. He said that the Crown case against the former imam of Finsbury Park Mosque was “simplistic in the extreme”.

He added: “It is said he was preaching murder, but he was actually preaching from the Koran itself.” "

In defense of hateful and speech inciting to violence, an Imam is defended by multiculturalists in the sense that this violence and jihad is an integral part of his culture and his holy book.

It is excellent when liberal doctrine gets them to begin justifying Islamic fundamentalism preaching murder of Jews as being a right due to a multicultural heritage -- just put a clown nose on and get it over with.
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executioneer executioneer is offline
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Old Jan 21st, 2006, 01:12 AM       
how's it going mad max
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[COLOR=purple][COLOR=Magenta]SHAME ON A [COLOR=Pink]NIGGA WHO TRY TO RUN [/COLOR][URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVGI6mhfJyA"]GAME[/URL] ON A NIGGA[/COLOR]
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Immortal Goat Immortal Goat is offline
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Old Jan 21st, 2006, 01:18 AM        Re: Koran & Murder Case
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kulturkampf
In defense of hateful and speech inciting to violence, an Imam is defended by multiculturalists in the sense that this violence and jihad is an integral part of his culture and his holy book.

It is excellent when liberal doctrine gets them to begin justifying Islamic fundamentalism preaching murder of Jews as being a right due to a multicultural heritage -- just put a clown nose on and get it over with.
Because Conservatives have NEVER used a holy book of any sort to justify their hateful actions towards a minority
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ScruU2wice ScruU2wice is offline
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Old Jan 21st, 2006, 01:40 AM       
yeah Imam's are the super liberal folks, they love the gays, hug trees and fight global warming.


But I'm glad you think that if one psycho says that the koran said it was ok to murder someone, it is an comment on the whold of Islam.
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Old Jan 21st, 2006, 02:52 AM       
doesn't this guy seem a little mad maxish to anyone else or is it just me
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Immortal Goat Immortal Goat is offline
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Old Jan 21st, 2006, 03:57 AM       
I thought Vince, but Mad Max could be possible, too.
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Pharaoh Pharaoh is offline
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Old Jan 21st, 2006, 01:29 PM       
It's Islam that's on trial here now.
The defense is saying that Abu Hamza isn't preaching murder and hate because he's just preaching what is in the Koran. Which means if he's found not guilty it's Islam that's hateful, not Abu Hamza. So the Koran will be proven to be preaching murder and hate.
Which means he'll have to found guilty, unless we're going to ban the Koran, which is highly unlikely.
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Chojin Chojin is offline
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Old Jan 21st, 2006, 02:26 PM       
So I assume both of you have read the Koran, yes?
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Ant10708 Ant10708 is offline
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Old Jan 21st, 2006, 02:31 PM       
which translation
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Chojin Chojin is offline
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Old Jan 21st, 2006, 02:35 PM       
Saint john, of course
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Pharaoh Pharaoh is offline
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Old Jan 21st, 2006, 02:47 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chojin
So I assume both of you have read the Koran, yes?
I have. The N.J.Dawood translation. Have you?
I expected it to be simillar to the Bible, but I was surprised at how aggressive and intolerant of non-Muslims it was throughout. I think every non-Muslim should read it, it's a real eye-opener.
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Chojin Chojin is offline
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Old Jan 21st, 2006, 02:50 PM       
I have not, then again I don't make threads about what it does or does not say.

And I don't believe you.
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Jan 21st, 2006, 02:52 PM        Re: Koran & Murder Case
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Originally Posted by Immortal Goat
NEVER used a holy book of any sort to justify their hateful actions towards a minority
Well, this is an interesting point to make however. If some Southern Baptist is reading from the Bible to rationalize violence or hating gays, what do you do? You clearly jump on them for it, right?

I somehow don't think the "multiculturalists" (I'm sorry, it fits) would react quite the same way to hate speech from the Koran.
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Pharaoh Pharaoh is offline
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Old Jan 21st, 2006, 02:57 PM       
I've got it in front of me right now. I'll post a picture of any page you want, Chojin.
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Immortal Goat Immortal Goat is offline
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Old Jan 21st, 2006, 02:57 PM       
It's wrong no matter who it is or what the book is. That's the point. It isn't the book that tells them to do it, but their interpretation of what the book says. Hate is hate, no matter who it guilty of it.
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Chojin Chojin is offline
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Old Jan 21st, 2006, 02:59 PM       
I would like you to snapshot the page of the color-by-numbers picture of mohammed having sex with your mother while jesus looks on in prison :<
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Jan 21st, 2006, 03:05 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Immortal Goat
It's wrong no matter who it is or what the book is. That's the point. It isn't the book that tells them to do it, but their interpretation of what the book says. Hate is hate, no matter who it guilty of it.
Sure, and I know that you truly believe that. But this discussion (as every discussion these guys start....sigh) is less about muslims and gays and whatever, and is more about the reaction to these things that you get from so-called liberals, leftists, or whatever.

And i think it is a fair point that liberals today are quicker to jump all over fringe Christians than the fringe muslims.
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ziggytrix ziggytrix is offline
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Old Jan 21st, 2006, 03:06 PM       
Well, shit. If I had to deal with fringe muslims day in and day out, I'd probably be quicker to run my mouth about em, too.
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Immortal Goat Immortal Goat is offline
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Old Jan 21st, 2006, 03:40 PM       
I think that is the key element there. Fringe Muslims are not as prevalent in America, and therefor not jumped all over by reactionary liberals. It isn't saying that liberals accept the bigotry of fringe Muslims, just that they don't deal with it as often.
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Cosmo Electrolux Cosmo Electrolux is offline
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Old Jan 21st, 2006, 03:52 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pharaoh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chojin
So I assume both of you have read the Koran, yes?
I have. The N.J.Dawood translation. Have you?
I expected it to be simillar to the Bible, but I was surprised at how aggressive and intolerant of non-Muslims it was throughout. I think every non-Muslim should read it, it's a real eye-opener.
I have to agree....my jaw dropped when I first read it...
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Pharaoh Pharaoh is offline
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Old Jan 21st, 2006, 04:24 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chojin
I would like you to snapshot the page of the color-by-numbers picture of mohammed having sex with your mother while jesus looks on in prison :<
You're pathetic.
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Old Jan 21st, 2006, 05:05 PM       
N.J. Dawood is perhaps the only Jew to have translated the Quran into English. Available in the Penguin edition, Dawood's translation, The Koran (London, 1956) is perhaps the most widely circulated non-Muslim English translation of the Quran. The author's bias against Islam is readily observable in the Introduction. Apart form adopting an unusual Sura order in his translation, Dawood is guilty also of having mistranslated the Quran in places such as Baqara II:9 and A'raf VII:31, etc.

http://www.islam101.com/quran/transAnalysis.htm
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Abcdxxxx Abcdxxxx is offline
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Old Jan 21st, 2006, 06:20 PM       
There is no one translation you can blame for misleading the public into thinking Islam is daggers. Their actions in the name of the Koran probably reach a larger audience on the news every night, then Dadwoods total sales on Amazon. I've compared verses with devout Muslims, and gone back and forth. The problem is, there is not a single accurate English translation on the market. The Koran doesn't translate (nor does the The Bible, honestly. Look at the King James version...yikes).

The general ideas are all the same though, even when described in lesser terms. Islamic scholars who take a more liberal approach will never argue one verse at a time, they'll compare contradictions later on to say "see, so when the Koran say's to beat your wife, it means to do with a toothbrush, and that's silly, so it's obviously not a literal commandment".
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Pharaoh Pharaoh is offline
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Old Jan 21st, 2006, 07:12 PM       
As if any Muslim today would recommend a Jew's translation of the Koran. The only translations they approve of are by Muslims. And that's because the only people they approve of are Muslims.
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Abcdxxxx Abcdxxxx is offline
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Old Jan 21st, 2006, 07:26 PM       
Well, it is their scriptures. Why would they approve of anyone elses version of THEIR scriptures? More to the point, they're reading the text in it's native language. They only concern themselves with the translations when it comes to public image, and answering critics.

Edit: The flipside of that are those who say that Muslims translating the Koran into English would be the biased ones, using less harsh language, and that this translation is the only independent outsider translation.
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