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Kulturkampf Kulturkampf is offline
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Old Feb 24th, 2009, 07:48 PM        Kulturkampf's Fun-Time Philosophy Jamboree! (merged)
Sacrifice is the basis of all morality because the fundamental essence of the human being is one that is self-centered and demanding. The human is wired like all animals: it desires foremost to survive, and anything beyond survival focuses on attaining pleasure. As Freud noted, the human animal in its basic form, its "id," focuses on attaining pleasure and avoiding pain.

Morality is often measured by how much sacrifice is made.

Saints sacrifice their animal instincts often in acts of martyrdom, or in dedicating their free time to helping the impoverished to such an extent that they choose poverty and celibacy in order to dedicate the whole of themselves to others.

All people within a society must sacrifice -- a father and mother must work hard to support the child who is too young to support themselves. A friend who does not sacrifice a portion of themselves for the other person is not truly upholding their friendship.

In marriage and sexual relationships, people often enter agreements that entail sacrifice -- in order to not produce feelings of jealousy, people do not engage in sex outside of their relationship or only do so under specific agreements. Any relationship where there are not agreements on boundaries of sexuality is doomed to producing innate feelings of jealousy in any human. The human animal naturally wants a sense of security and consistency and not to be left dependent on the whims of their partner -- the notion of not having such agreements is alien to most relationships because without this sense of sacrificing animal urges to be sexually fulfilled in any number of ways it takes away from the human desire for security of their possessions and a sense of elitism, dominance, etc. that plays to the ego.

In fact, in old relationships where women had no say in the sexual activities of their men (and vice versa) they cannot even really be deemed a relationship but rather a slave-like status to the un-empowered member of the union.

All of our ideas of sexual morality hinge around the notion of sacrificing the basic urge to mate with anything.

Our other agreements also involve sacrifice... We live in societies with rules that preclude theft, murder, etc. and in any society which has a concept of justice all members of it are bound by these laws. This means that all moral people within the society have subdued and ended their desires to murder or steal.

However, it is also important to note that as in the animal Kingdom there are plenty of humans who are fundamentally weaker and more cowardly than others; these people essentially make no sacrifice in the bargain, and if they are merely avoiding doing these things because they feel it will doom them they are basically not moral people. The only moral people within the society are the people capable of exploitation of others yet sacrifice their ability to do so because of the fact that they honor the bond within the community.

This is why child abuse is viewed as one of the lowest crimes: a child is defenseless against an able-bodied adult. Any person who abuses children is committing the most grievous of crimes against the community because they are preying on the weakest members of the society.

To live within a moral community one must have sacrifice; the more sacrifices made to help others proves the further distance that the person or community has made from its most basic animal urges to fulfill their bestial desires.

In a very real sense, Communism represents the most moral system, ideally, as it entails that all members of the community forsake luxury for the benefit of everyone.

Even if we were to believe that the 'rich are being rewarded for their hard labor' this would not be that moral in and of itself... For hard labor that is done for the sake of individual gain is not fundamentally moral.

Capitalism is an amoral idea in its essence and to some extent it is the government surrendering its role in the moral systems of the people and rather enabling the people to make their own choices.

People often wonder why war is glorified but the answer is quite simple: it is the ultimate sacrifice for the society and community as a whole. The warrior is the most honored occupation in any decent society because it is recognized as the most fundamental building block of the community. As such, Firefighters and Police are also held in high esteem.

An occupation should be valued by the amount of sacrifice given in the service to the community. But the sacrifice must be by the will of the person -- someone who performs moral tasks out of necessity is not actually doing anything moral. Moral action by coercion is not moral, but rather, it is enslaving another person.

In order to be a moral person one must not have a slave mentality and one must be in complete communion with their own Person and Desires. Only a free person, making a free choice, is capable of a moral action (this is why the notion of Free Will is strong in the Christian religion).

This is also why Christians should never intend to control the morality of the society as it fundamentally violates a tenet of their own religion.

This is why people who simply and cowardly go with the flow of the society gain no respect.

To go back to an idea of Henrik Ibsen -- he who stands most alone is most right, most strong, in many senses of the word; for the person who stands most alone is the person who is most capable of moral choice.

The lowest form of existence is mindlessness. The highest form of existence is mindful sacrifice in the name of those who are deserving.

Any society where the common person lives in a world without sacrifice is a society which is approaching its own death, for in the circumstance where sacrifice is continued for the existence of the society, the society crumbles.

Societies that enforce rote conformity are societies where moral actions become impossible; and societies that cultivate only individual indulgence begin failing in even being societies because the members of these communities have no moral connection to one another.

Freedom of choice is necessary for a moral society.
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Kulturkampf Kulturkampf is offline
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Old Feb 24th, 2009, 08:04 PM       
I wrote in another thread that morality requires the freedom of choice, the choice of sacrifice.

Thus, my conclusion is simple:

A moral individual must be free.

Without choice in their actions they are incapable of a moral act.

And more than this: a person who is moral must be making a decision in any moral act, and the ultimate decisions in morality stem from knowledge of the situation.

Thus: each individual must be an explorer of their own world and their own moral choices to come to realizations on what are proper and moral actions.

Thus: each individual must Live.

Thus: one must not simply just be following a Christian or other ethical system, but must be consciously doing so and doing so not in fear of hell, but rather in knowledge of the truth behind any such choice.

And so:

I spend my life exploring the basis of my own moral choices by understanding the ramifications of my own actions. Towards this end, I have even committed sins...

Oh, have I committed sins, and Oh, have I enjoyed and loathed each moment of it. It has produced a profound paradox of feelings inside of an individual and has lead to finding out what is the proper path for the fulfillment of the most moral life.

All people must understand their actions and their meanings...

This is why youth, intelligent youth, is characterized as embracing a sense of the wild: they have not yet gone through all of the stages of understanding their broad actions. And that's OK.

One has to sink to the lowest depths sometimes to understand why an action is immoral.

Sexual avarice, violence, etc. are fueled by emotions that are fundamental to a human -- the desire for sexual gratification, the desire for gratifying the impulses of revenge and anger, etc.

Until one understands the pain of sexual indulgence and the fruitlessness of the course one does not understand that monogamous relationships are the ideal path of one's choice -- it would take someone who is less doubting, less questioning to understand this. Of course, one can come to these conclusions by their own feelings of jealousy in sexual relationships and oddly this also produces a sense of revenge within the individual to harm others through their own vengeful, sexual indulgences.

Until one understands the pain and humiliation of physical violence enacted upon oneself or another, one might not understand why violence towards an opponent is unacceptable. It is clear, even in victory, that the thorough humiliation of an opponent often is excessive.

A beaten, broken individual looking up to you for mercy with swollen eyes and blood in their mouth is the greatest argument against fighting for no-good reason.

A jealous, spurned lover, feeling their inadequacies, with whom you have cultivated a close personal relationship is the greatest argument against sexual indulgence.

This is often why theft is one of the easiest things to justify: one does not often see the reactions of those from whom they stole, and one easily justifies their petty thefts by saying 'these people probably have enough.' Few people realize that often it is the common worker who suffers from theft.

Few people also realize that many artists whose work is pirated end up living impoverished lives because of it. A good example are the bands who have gained popularity through internet downloads yet still are normal functionaries in society -- bands like the Oppressed which have tens of thousands of people downloading their music annually but still depend on the earnings of a Pizza parlor in Cardiff, Wales.

I think that people with doubts on moral actions should experiment in them.

The easiest way to learn the truth of an action is to engage in it, to find the moral path within it.

Towards this end society should enable people to make their own choices on all levels so that they are capable of moral action.
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Kulturkampf Kulturkampf is offline
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Old Feb 24th, 2009, 11:27 PM        Manifesto Of The Noble Savage
In the modern age we find ourselves as never before surrounded by meaningless prosperity that historically marks the death of any civilized society; we see the morals of the world gnawed upon by the pathetic existence amongst hitherto unknown pleasures. Our humanity is undermined by new languages and ideas that prevent criticism and thoughtfulness; our humanity is put in jeopardy by forcefed decadence and materialism.

Our souls decay under the naked technologies which direct us into pointless futures measured by a warped sense of tolerance and misguided materialism.

It is impossible to find a shard of primordial grandeur in the world we have landed ourselves in. We have to recreate it using only our ancestral inspirations and the phlegm coughed up from our throats sickened by the pestilence of a dying civilization.

We look to attractive celebrities for advice and listen to politicians trying to placate us in exchange for votes, having no care for actual, objective truth and only interest in the subjective whims of the lowest common denominating voters. They even teach us to tolerate the intolerable in the name of ascertaining trade deals.

The basic essence of humanity has been recast into a mold of polity and decadence. We are to politely accept our bread & circuses from our governments and follow the prescribed rules they have agreed upon (because apparently the tyrannical rule of a stupid, ignorant majority is the new battle cry of the rulers who through long, tireless study have learned the proper messages to be presented so they can lap from the bowl of Pride & Power served by the ignorant masses they have made into their cheering crowds of maidservants and serfs).

I call for something older and bolder for our earthly existence -- I would like to see a new movement of people who reject every concept enacted upon us by modern, secular governments and decaying, equivocating religions.

Do not content yourself with the Now and do not have faith in the Future. It's all a lie wrapped up in a fancy box, presented to you as meaningful, but in reality they are only giving you a cold, dignity-free gift.

I want to see the world economy collapse and every visionless dreamer fall from their pedestal of decency. I want to see society cast into the cleansing fires of annihilation and rebuilt in its ashes.

I just have a few simple things that I would like to see the good people of the world do:

(1) Reject tolerance for morality.
(2) Reject decency for dignity.
(3) Reject peace for war, "the world's only hygiene" (F. T. Marinetti)
(4) Reject control for liberty.
(5) Reject vanity for truth.
(6) Reject money for time.
(7) Reject intellectualism for simplicity in action.

You must:

(8) Purge the religious of those who use it as a modern convenience.
(9) Purge the atheists of those who use it as a social statement.
(0) Above all else, every political institution must be mistruted until it has been destroyed and rebuilt on solid ground. Do not dwell in a broken, old house waiting to cave in.

To put it simply: everything you've learned and every article of indoctrination that you've received from any source which is compliant to the modern institutions of First World nations must be cast into doubt and passed through the meatgrinder. If anything useful is left from it, then you can take it and call it 'good.'

History teaches us that all civilizations have life-cycles. The downfalls of all civilizations are marked by what we are seeing today: licentiousness, luxury and self-indulgence.

There are currently no barbarian powers that cleanse the world of our civilizations so the task falls on the own members of the civilization to undermine its existence in every way -- but not in the name of decrying and destroying the values that it was founded on, as these values have already been destroyed by the civilization itself.

Rather, the attack most come from a new breed, a new horde of marauders, and it must be directed at every manifestation of our contemporary vanity and lies.

Contemporary culture and anything that is propping it up must be sabotaged and collapsed into a heap of trash. For it was this contemporary culture that raped the dignity and truth that was once embodied by our institutions in a time when Americans believed in Liberty.

A vague sense of anarchy and chaos must be promoted, and an effort to dethrone every empowered person must be made.

Every intellectual who wants to see the World Go On Living, As Usual, or uses a modern concepts of morality and decency to measure our existence, must be scorned and mocked.

The good people of the world must start over and find their truer roots, their truer basis; perhaps they must borrow from earlier times and bring their religions and governments back to square one; but this doesn't matter right now.

All that matters is that we fracture & destroy everything that we know and see every institution driven into the ground.

The modern era saw the death of all dignified barbarians in existence so we have to make ourselves into noble savages seeking the downfall of Our Global Culture Of Lunacy.

Form yourself into your tribes and clans, and attack the exposed hides of the nearest beasts until the only thing left standing that is sacred is the Human Spirit & the Human Mind.

Pull every skeleton out of the closet and cast doubt on every apparition of the contemporary.

Be the scourge of every thoughtless modernist who thinks there is truth in what the Left or the Right says. There is no Left or Right, there is no need for us to debate the details -- the best ideas will eventually rise to the top and form themselves into new civilizations and new orders, that is what happens; a veritable competition occurs between ideas.

But now ideas can no longer compete due to the stagnation we experience in our everyday world of contented bureaucrats and common people whose minds have been enslaved to a sick society.

No catalyst can launch us into proper reformation because the only ideas we are offered, today, are from poisoned wells. The only thing we can do is wait for the catalyst the announces the downfall of modern civilization itself.

Do not be satisfied until all we are left with is our liberty and ourselves.
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kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old Feb 25th, 2009, 12:22 AM       
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To put it simply: everything you've learned and every article of indoctrination that you've received from any source which is compliant to the modern institutions of First World nations must be cast into doubt and passed through the meatgrinder.
What about the idea that the feminine is bad?

You talk like a preacher. Your arguments have very little or spurious reasoning. And often outright false premises.
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kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old Feb 25th, 2009, 12:27 AM       
your doctrines are contradictory ;\

anyway, if making sacrifices is the ultimate form of morality, then everybody should just kill themselves in order to be the most good. The most good.

Quote:
In a very real sense, Communism represents the most moral system, ideally, as it entails that all members of the community forsake luxury for the benefit of everyone.
Communism is becoming a slave to the community. It also isn't a moral system, it's a political system. Also, it's not for the benefit of everybody, but for the benefit of the weak. "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need."

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People often wonder why war is glorified but the answer is quite simple: it is the ultimate sacrifice for the society and community as a whole.
People don't go to war to make sacrifices. They go to war to survive, to conquer, to enforce their values on others, and to sack.

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Capitalism is an amoral idea in its essence and to some extent it is the government surrendering its role in the moral systems of the people and rather enabling the people to make their own choices.
That isn't what capitalism is, but whatever. Is it better to enforce a poor or weak system of morality than to allow people the freedom to be strong?
You said that morality can't exist without the freedom to make your own choices, but you are saying that capitalism is immoral because it lets people make their own choices instead of forcing people to make pre-approved choices?

are you sure you aren't a character?

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However, it is also important to note that as in the animal Kingdom there are plenty of humans who are fundamentally weaker and more cowardly than others; these people essentially make no sacrifice in the bargain, and if they are merely avoiding doing these things because they feel it will doom them they are basically not moral people. The only moral people within the society are the people capable of exploitation of others yet sacrifice their ability to do so because of the fact that they honor the bond within the community.
Excellent kantian argument. The problem is, those who are "Weak" are usually capable of being strong. Even some of the weakest men can pick up a gun and shoot their enemies, or keep their money instead of giving it to a charity. Remember in the bible when the poor woman donates money, even though its almost everything she has, its considered strength because of how weak she actually is. She is sacrificing more of her strength than a rich man. What is this.. uhhh utility.. exchange... ill remember the name.. marginal utility exchange.

by a similar principle weak people have the most to gain by picking up a gun, but they don't. Thus, a bigger sacrifice.
shrugamcshrug

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The highest form of existence is mindful sacrifice in the name of those who are deserving.
If people only sacrifice to be higher than other people, then they are just being vain.
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Old Feb 25th, 2009, 12:28 AM       
This is one terrible alt.
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Old Feb 25th, 2009, 12:47 AM       
http://www.jmverville.com/?p=879
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Old Feb 25th, 2009, 02:29 AM       
so how does this all fit into shaving your head and listening to crappy angry music?


because that's what's really important
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Old Feb 25th, 2009, 02:32 AM       
Hey, didn't Vince Zeb describe himself as some kind of catholic samurai or something once? I just thought of that for some reason looking at the seemingly Asian-ish motif in KKK's signature.
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Kulturkampf Kulturkampf is offline
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Old Feb 25th, 2009, 05:05 AM       
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Originally Posted by kahljorn View Post
What about the idea that the feminine is bad?

You talk like a preacher. Your arguments have very little or spurious reasoning. And often outright false premises.
The feminine is bad to be mixed with the masculine, I guess.

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This is one terrible alt.
Whati s an alt?

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Originally Posted by Big Papa Goat View Post
Hey, didn't Vince Zeb describe himself as some kind of catholic samurai or something once? I just thought of that for some reason looking at the seemingly Asian-ish motif in KKK's signature.
KKK? hahaha... Uhhhh....

I have lived in Asia for 3 years and some change, by the way.... In Korea......

I think Knights are better than Samurai. I think Vikings are cooler than Knights.
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Kulturkampf Kulturkampf is offline
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Old Feb 25th, 2009, 05:10 AM       
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Originally Posted by kahljorn View Post
That's my blog.

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Originally Posted by kahljorn View Post
your doctrines are contradictory ;\

anyway, if making sacrifices is the ultimate form of morality, then everybody should just kill themselves in order to be the most good. The most good.
I think it is implied that sacrifice has to come with a purpose.

Quote:
Communism is becoming a slave to the community. It also isn't a moral system, it's a political system. Also, it's not for the benefit of everybody, but for the benefit of the weak. "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need."
Politics is the morality of laws. Someone important said this. I forget who.

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People don't go to war to make sacrifices. They go to war to survive, to conquer, to enforce their values on others, and to sack.
I guess it would depend on how you view the war; however, regardless of how it is viewed, the Soldier is dying for his community.

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That isn't what capitalism is, but whatever. Is it better to enforce a poor or weak system of morality than to allow people the freedom to be strong?
You said that morality can't exist without the freedom to make your own choices, but you are saying that capitalism is immoral because it lets people make their own choices instead of forcing people to make pre-approved choices?
Capitalism is an amoral system, but in a sense it is what enables people to act morally by giving them choice in the matter.

Communism is a morally superior doctrine but... It cannot actually be morally superior because it takes away the choice of the individual.

Quote:
Excellent kantian argument. The problem is, those who are "Weak" are usually capable of being strong. Even some of the weakest men can pick up a gun and shoot their enemies, or keep their money instead of giving it to a charity. Remember in the bible when the poor woman donates money, even though its almost everything she has, its considered strength because of how weak she actually is. She is sacrificing more of her strength than a rich man. What is this.. uhhh utility.. exchange... ill remember the name.. marginal utility exchange.
You are right, by and large; they are then strong in spirit and courageous people as normally others are unwilling to do this.

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by a similar principle weak people have the most to gain by picking up a gun, but they don't. Thus, a bigger sacrifice.
shrugamcshrug

If people only sacrifice to be higher than other people, then they are just being vain.
You are correct -- the intent of a moral act should be to do something right for right's sake and not to achieve recognition.

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so how does this all fit into shaving your head and listening to crappy angry music?


because that's what's really important
Well, yeah.

I guess if you shave your head and listen to angry music... You get closer to the entire romance of militarism and self-sacrifice.
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kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old Feb 25th, 2009, 06:42 AM       
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I think it is implied that sacrifice has to come with a purpose
There is a purpose. To eliminate all human suffering once and for all.

more later.
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Old Feb 25th, 2009, 08:55 AM       
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There is a purpose. To eliminate all human suffering once and for all.
Don't worry 'bout that part lil buddy.
We'll go extinct (hopefully) soon enough and there'll be no more human suffering.
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Old Feb 25th, 2009, 03:05 PM       
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Communism is a morally superior doctrine but... It cannot actually be morally superior because it takes away the choice of the individual.
How is it a morally superior doctrine? This is a self-contradictory statement ;/
Anyway, communism rejoices in the weak and "feminine." The entire point of communism is so that the weak and feminine can survive just as easily as the strong. In fact, what it says is that the weak, feminine, strong and masculine are all equal in value. And it also argues that the weak and the feminine deserve more money/benefits than the strong and masculine.

Something can't be a morally superior doctrine just because it sounds nicer ;\
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Old Feb 25th, 2009, 04:09 PM       
GIVE UP YOUR LIFE FOR OUR DEAR LEADER, KIM JONG IL
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Old Feb 25th, 2009, 05:07 PM       
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I have lived in Asia for 3 years and some change, by the way.... In Korea......
Well there you go: Kulturkampf in Korea. KKK.
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Old Feb 25th, 2009, 05:28 PM       
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The feminine is bad to be mixed with the masculine, I guess.
You guess? The feminine is not bad to be mixed with the masculine, I guess. And nobody is purely "masculine" or "feminine".
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kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old Feb 25th, 2009, 05:30 PM       
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Don't worry 'bout that part lil buddy.
I'm not your lil buddy, champ.
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Old Feb 25th, 2009, 05:38 PM       
Too late.

Lil Buddy.
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Old Feb 25th, 2009, 06:27 PM       
Wow. Sort of like a Hyper-Libertarian Naturalism thing going on.
I like it : )

It would sort of be like that movie The Postman, but not gay.
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Old Feb 25th, 2009, 06:52 PM       
I was going to start into this but it looks like Kahl has beat me to the punch again. Yea! Less work for me!
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Old Feb 25th, 2009, 07:12 PM       
woops, typo
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Old Feb 25th, 2009, 09:02 PM       
Well, you can be my lil hussy then, since you're already everybody else's.

lil hussy.
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Old Feb 25th, 2009, 10:04 PM       
"Hussy" comes from the word "housewife", so I'd imagine that'd be an accurate description.
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kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old Feb 25th, 2009, 10:30 PM       
And ****** comes from negro which is the mexican word for black so I guess its not a big deal to call black people ******s.

Genetic fallacy

If y ou look in the dictionary it says that that definition is obsolete. Words change, whore. Hey look in the definition of WHORE part of its roots is, "To caress, to charish." OR CHARITY. Guess its not such a bad thing to call you a whore, it just means you like to donate money. That's very kind of you.

you are such a benevolent lil whore.
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