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george george is offline
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Old Nov 10th, 2009, 09:17 PM        ABORTION!!!!!
i like following politics because it is fun for me to try and figure out what they are really up to. i base my thoughts on almost zero facts, it is mostly speculation on What is happening.

now, this amendment they added to the House Health care bill that blocks women from getting abortions under any policy purchased off the federal exchange is an interesting thing. from what i have seen on the news, there wqs ALREADY a compromise worked out that everyone liked and then suddenly POOF an amendment that no sane person could like.

Pelosi could have stopped this, i know like 40 congressmen threatended to vote against the whole thing, but 26 of them voted against it anyhow so i am of the opinion that the 14 who voted yes, would have voted yes anyway.

i think this amendment was a trick.

see, this works two ways for the DEMS in my opinion:

1. For the next three or four weeks, the rabid right is going to be all over this. they will tea party their asses off. they HATE abortion, and they are not going to give an inch. it is going to drive the blue dogs dems , and they are gonna be forced into voting for whatever gets them back to the middle cause otherwise they are going to lose their women voters.

2. i think the DEMS know this bill is going to fail spectacularly. and now they have a boogeyman to blame it on. ANYONE attached to the idea of killing health care cause they want to essentially kill abortion rights for women is going to be in deep shit come 2010. a lot of moderate people are against abortion, but support women having the right to choose. i think there will be a huge loss of seats for the republicans on this point, they may get their Glen Beck crowd all happy, but they will loose women and a huge chunk of moderate men for the abortion BS, not to mention backlash over killing health care.

this is what i think so far, it is going to be interesting to see how this plays out.
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kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old Nov 10th, 2009, 10:03 PM       
Are abortions covered by normal health insurance if they are for reasons other than that pregnancy might be a danger to the mother? I can understand that not being covered, because it's almost cosmetic
Will the nationalized healthcare cover abortions which are done for the safety and well-being of the mother? Because, if not, that would be a travesty.

They'll still be able to get abortions completely outside of healthcare, right? its just that the federal government won't handle it...?
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george george is offline
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Old Nov 11th, 2009, 01:30 AM       
frm what i gather it is like this:

1. right now most (85%) private health plans cover abortion.

2. only health plans traded on the federal exchange would be barred from covering abortions. but since the fed exchange will be pretty much the only place to buy affordable health insurance, most middle class and poor women would not be able to get a plan that covers abortion, regardless of the reason for it.

so unless you are uber wealthy, a woman would essentially be unable to get health insurance that covers an abortion becuase no insurance company is going to touch it because then their plans would then be removed from the exchange.

in effect it would be an abortion ban for the people most vulnerable to needing coverage for an abortion.
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Chojin Chojin is offline
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Old Nov 11th, 2009, 01:40 AM       
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Originally Posted by george View Post
since the fed exchange will be pretty much the only place to buy affordable health insurance, most middle class and poor women would not be able to get a plan that covers abortion, regardless of the reason for it.
the laws of supply and demand suggest that if the gov't enters the market as a price leader, the rest of the companies will drop their prices to compete

also, people can just get separate abortion insurance elsewhere

and it's not like abortion even costs all that much in the first place
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Old Nov 11th, 2009, 02:02 AM       
Most poor people go to Planned Parenthood for abortions. They have programs to help people.
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Old Nov 11th, 2009, 09:54 AM       
How much do abortions cost Chojin? Had to get many?

When my wife first got pregnant back in the day she went to Planned Parenthood just to get examined. Because they are super cheap if not free, I dont really remember. Anyway, when she was there they were almost pushing abortion on her.
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kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old Nov 11th, 2009, 10:14 AM       
That's cause planned parenthood used to be RETARD/POOR PERSON MURDER INCORPORATE AKA EUGENIC CUNTBAGS OF AMERICA'

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The organization has its roots in Brooklyn, New York where Margaret Sanger opened the country's first birth control clinic.
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Old Nov 11th, 2009, 10:16 AM       
i talked about this with a girl that I know got an abortion when she was 17: She paid for it herself without insurance (but they sort of lucked out getting the money), it cost 350 dollars, she would never want more than one abortion. She doesn't care if its covered by the federal health bill, because then it might end up including cosmetic surgery.
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Old Nov 11th, 2009, 02:07 PM       
i dont care if it is covered or not.

the point to me is that the right is going to make a major issue of this, and get the kind of people who do care about it fired up. these are the smae people waving obama hitler signs at rallies and that sort of shit. any dem getting mixed up on this side of things will pay for it, because if there is one thing that gets women political is if there pussy is involved and they will push people out of office for it. mark my words, if there is a congressmen or senator in your area that has to run in 2010 there will be a brutal amount of ads about how he wanted to chain women to the proverbial stove. to feminists this is the equivalent of bringing back jim crowe laws would be to a black guy.

i am pretty much anti abortion BTW, i just dont feel i have a right to tell a woman what to do with her body. it is between her and god.
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Old Nov 11th, 2009, 02:11 PM       
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i am pretty much anti abortion BTW, i just dont feel i have a right to tell a woman what to do with her body. it is between her and god.

That. That right there.

Although I think there should be some sort of time limit on it. Im not sure what it is now but if you wait to your 3rd trimester (Or something. Im only using the 3rd as an example.) then it should be to late. You had all that time to think about it and should have made that decision before then.
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Old Nov 11th, 2009, 02:12 PM       
Meanwhile sneaky bitches put holes in your rubbers.
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Old Nov 11th, 2009, 02:15 PM       
Just go get snipped dude. That will show them.
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Old Nov 11th, 2009, 02:19 PM       
I already did. Sneaky bitches.
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Dimnos Dimnos is offline
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Old Nov 11th, 2009, 02:29 PM       
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Old Nov 11th, 2009, 02:48 PM       
Seriously, I got a vasectomy for 10 bucks at Planned Parenthood. They were sick of me dragging the ladies in for abortions and offered it to me at a discount. Also the overlooked the fact that I was in my early 20s without kids.
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Dimnos Dimnos is offline
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Old Nov 11th, 2009, 03:11 PM       
Did they give you that fancy noninvasive one they do these days?
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Old Nov 11th, 2009, 04:21 PM       
Yep, just a little Novocaine. You can't even see were the cut was, it was so small no stitches were needed. Just a bandaid. I asked when I could have sex again, he said to give him time to leave the room.
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Dimnos Dimnos is offline
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Old Nov 11th, 2009, 04:23 PM       


What do they do it with? I heard it was just some fancy needle like device.
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Old Nov 11th, 2009, 04:35 PM       
Nah dude, they cut a tiny little slit at the bottom of the shaft just above the balls, use a little hook to pull the two sperm tube out the slit, (That part feels really fucking weird), then they cut them and tie them off, stuff it back in, slap a bandaid on.
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Old Nov 11th, 2009, 04:38 PM       
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kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old Nov 11th, 2009, 07:06 PM       
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the point to me is that the right is going to make a major issue of this, and get the kind of people who do care about it fired up. these are the smae people waving obama hitler signs at rallies and that sort of shit. any dem getting mixed up on this side of things will pay for it, because if there is one thing that gets women political is if there pussy is involved and they will push people out of office for it.
Well, that's why I brought up that girl (but then she was a fairly intelligent woman and not an annoying feminist). Personally, I don't give a shit if federal health care covers it or not, and I'm not waving nazi obama signs. I think in exchange for national health care having to pay for your abortions is a pretty good exchange.

Nobody is telling a woman what they can or can't do with their body in this instance. Yea and also don't forget for as many women as there are that'll get pissed about being told what to do with their body, there's just as many conservative women waving nazi obama signs.
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george george is offline
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Old Nov 12th, 2009, 12:08 AM       
your're prolly right on that point kaljorn. i hope not though, i am rooting for my interpretation to win out. but that is the fun of the whole thing.

as for getting fixed:

i got it done when my wife got pregnant with our third child. i kind of regret it now that we are divorced, and may want another kid someday.

but not too long ago i had a girl tell me i got her pregnant. it made me laugh.
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kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old Nov 12th, 2009, 02:38 AM       
You might be right, we all know how bitchy women democrats can be.


At the same point, though, id think if democrats can get what they want just by sacrificing abortion, it would be easier ;/ Plus our current administration is supposed to be big on being bi-partisan, but its not like that has ever really mattered.

but then with what you were saying, what does it really matter if they can get what they want AND further alienate their opposition?
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Old Nov 13th, 2009, 03:00 AM       
Mandatory abortions for everyone.
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Old Nov 13th, 2009, 06:46 PM       
abortions for some, miniature american flags for others
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